Inter-District Play for 2017

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by ASD20

Ontario and Michigan will be pretty close, I think?

Depends which part

I'm sort of surprised there were only 11 teams able to compete inter-district. I wonder what that number will be next year.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by ASD20

Ontario and Michigan will be pretty close, I think?

Yes, but Michigan seldom has open spots.

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

It's probably been brought up before, but FIRST won't let this happen. The reason a DCMP isn't free was FIRST's decision. Charging 4k for a DCMP makes up for the fact that FIRST doesn't see 4k second regional registrations from teams in a District area.

FIRST counts on netting an extra 4k from a certain percentage (~35%) of Regional teams for second plays, just like FIRST counts netting an extra 4k from District teams for the DCMP (which happens to come out to 30-40% of teams in a given district).

Much of FIRST's operating budget is funded by FRC teams (FTC and FLL do not provide revenue to FIRST at the same level), so I don't expect to get a cheaper second play unless we go to districts.

I expect that FIRST will continue to count on netting 5-6k from all FRC teams, 4k from relatively fixed percentage (30-40%) of those teams, and 4 million dollars from FRC teams for #2champs.

-Mike

This begs the question, how many 2 and 3 regional teams would give up a chance to qualify for champs to save $3,000 and 1 night in a hotel, while risking that the slots are still available on Nov 10th (or later should Inter-Districts teams get dibs)?

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

This begs the question, how many 2 and 3 regional teams would give up a chance to qualify for champs to save $3,000 and 1 night in a hotel, while risking that the slots are still available on Nov 10th (or later should Inter-Districts teams get dibs)?

I think there are 2 groups of teams that this would be appealing to.

1. Teams who are confident that they will still qualify for champs with one less regional. This group is likely small, but prominent.
2. Teams that think they are unlikely to qualify for worlds anyways and/or don't have the money for the 2nd regional. This group is likely very large.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Indiana and Michigan are reasonably close too.

Originally Posted by ASD20

Ontario and Michigan will be pretty close, I think?

East side Michigan teams and Ontario teams will have a chance to get together pre-CMP for the first time since GLR became MSC. Pretty cool.

As for us West Coast Michiganders, Indiana beckons. The Average Joes have been dreaming:

Everybody knows a little place like Kokomo
Now if you want to go and get away from it all
Go down to Kokomo

Give us the right week and we'll be there.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

I find it disheartening that they still do not allow non district teams to attend district events, especially with the clarifications about earning no points. A district event would help us greatly.

+1000.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

This begs the question, how many 2 and 3 regional teams would give up a chance to qualify for champs to save $3,000 and 1 night in a hotel, while risking that the slots are still available on Nov 10th (or later should Inter-Districts teams get dibs)?

I would kill for the chance at getting a shot at a Weeks 1-3 District Event. My team attends one Regional that has always been (and will always be for the foreseeable future) a Week 5 event. My team has not been able to go to a second Regional due to costs, but if that price point dropped by a few thousand dollars, I think we could. By the same token, we have never won our home Regional, and we have no reason to believe that we could win another Regional like Palmetto or Bayou if we were to travel there. However, if we were to get in any type of competition before our home Regional, I feel a Blue Banner might be much more attainable.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

It's probably been brought up before, but FIRST won't let this happen. The reason a DCMP isn't free was FIRST's decision. Charging 4k for a DCMP makes up for the fact that FIRST doesn't see 4k second regional registrations from teams in a District area.

FIRST counts on netting an extra 4k from a certain percentage (~35%) of Regional teams for second plays, just like FIRST counts netting an extra 4k from District teams for the DCMP (which happens to come out to 30-40% of teams in a given district).

Much of FIRST's operating budget is funded by FRC teams (FTC and FLL do not provide revenue to FIRST at the same level), so I don't expect to get a cheaper second play unless we go to districts.

I expect that FIRST will continue to count on netting 5-6k from all FRC teams, 4k from relatively fixed percentage (30-40%) of those teams, and 4 million dollars from FRC teams for #2champs.

-Mike

So I think I understand why FIRST won't open up Districts to teams from Regionals. If they allowed this, teams that had been attending 2+ Regionals would try and switch to a cheaper District event, even if it meant they couldn't actually qualify in their district "practice" event. This would mean FIRST would be earning less revenue, and the quality of play in both the Regionals and Districts might suffer. Not entirely sure about that last statement, but I could see it happening.

However, as has been mentioned, there are teams that cannot afford a second Regional, but could afford an additional District event. In this case, if only teams that registered for one Regional qualified to pick up any leftover District spots, FIRST would, theoretically, see an increase in revenue. This should also increase level of play at the Regional level. Again, take that last statement with a grain of salt.

Is there any chance of FIRST considering this? Now at this point in time, there would probably only be a minuscule amount of teams able to take advantage of this. But as FIRST continues its transition to Districts over the next decade, it might be extremely beneficial to allow teams from Regionals to begin blending into Districts.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss

So I think I understand why FIRST won't open up Districts to teams from Regionals. If they allowed this, teams that had been attending 2+ Regionals would try and switch to a cheaper District event, even if it meant they couldn't actually qualify in their district "practice" event. This would mean FIRST would be earning less revenue, and the quality of play in both the Regionals and Districts might suffer. Not entirely sure about that last statement, but I could see it happening.

However, as has been mentioned, there are teams that cannot afford a second Regional, but could afford an additional District event. In this case, if only teams that registered for one Regional qualified to pick up any leftover District spots, FIRST would, theoretically, see an increase in revenue. This should also increase level of play at the Regional level. Again, take that last statement with a grain of salt.

Is there any chance of FIRST considering this? Now at this point in time, there would probably only be a minuscule amount of teams able to take advantage of this. But as FIRST continues its transition to Districts over the next decade, it might be extremely beneficial to allow teams from Regionals to begin blending into Districts.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I think you're underestimating how few teams would take advantage of this. Saving $3000 in terms of admittance costs means we have a giant budget compared to what we would use for a second regional, meaning we would go to much further expense to go to a district event.

The issue with teams currently going to regionals flooding district events is a good point though, but I doubt that's the only reason that FIRST isn't allowing regional teams to go to district events. I'd love to hear Frank or someone else in HQ's opinion and reasoning.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss

So I think I understand why FIRST won't open up Districts to teams from Regionals. If they allowed this, teams that had been attending 2+ Regionals would try and switch to a cheaper District event, even if it meant they couldn't actually qualify in their district "practice" event. This would mean FIRST would be earning less revenue, and the quality of play in both the Regionals and Districts might suffer. Not entirely sure about that last statement, but I could see it happening.

However, as has been mentioned, there are teams that cannot afford a second Regional, but could afford an additional District event. In this case, if only teams that registered for one Regional qualified to pick up any leftover District spots, FIRST would, theoretically, see an increase in revenue. This should also increase level of play at the Regional level. Again, take that last statement with a grain of salt.

Is there any chance of FIRST considering this? Now at this point in time, there would probably only be a minuscule amount of teams able to take advantage of this. But as FIRST continues its transition to Districts over the next decade, it might be extremely beneficial to allow teams from Regionals to begin blending into Districts.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Your revenue logic makes sense, except one point: For any "extra plays" in districts (3rd/4th plays, interdistrict plays, etc.), the extra play registration fee goes to the District Organization, not to FIRST. So FIRST does not see more revenue if all open district event slots get filled with interdistrict teams, but each District Organization would see additional revenue.

I think the level of play on the field always goes up as more teams get more matches/events. This trend can be seen year after year.

TL;DR, FIRST loses 4k of potential revenue for every Regional team is allowed to play at a District event. I don't see FIRST allowing this situation, at least in the short term.

-Mike

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Your revenue logic makes sense, except one point: For any "extra plays" in districts (3rd/4th plays, interdistrict plays, etc.), the extra play registration fee goes to the District Organization, not to FIRST. So FIRST does not see more revenue if all open district event slots get filled with interdistrict teams, but each District Organization would see additional revenue.

I think the level of play on the field always goes up as more teams get more matches/events. This trend can be seen year after year.

TL;DR, FIRST loses 4k of potential revenue for every Regional team is allowed to play at a District event. I don't see FIRST allowing this situation, at least in the short term.

-Mike

$4,000 of perceived revenue, teams like Cougar Robotics and Full Metal Jackets might never be able to afford a second regional. Also this is under the assumption that they won't change the pricing model for regional teams.

Just a quick idea would be to set regional to district reg to Nov 14th and then charge regional teams $1.5k, with $1k of it going to FIRST and $500 to the district. Everyone wins: district teams still get first shot at inter-districts, low income regional teams can play more, FIRST gets more money, and Districts get more money.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It's a little surprising that only 11 teams participated in inter-district play. Is that due more to availability than interest from teams?

As a less funded team, its hard enough to pay for DCMP, let alone go across the country to get to a different district.

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

AI find it disheartening that they still do not allow non district teams to attend district events, especially with the clarifications about earning no points.

Is there an official reason that this still isint allowed?

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It's a little surprising that only 11 teams participated in inter-district play. Is that due more to availability than interest from teams?

Michigan has not had open spots, so IN teams cannot go north.

I think there is strong interest, but there needs to be more availability.

Inter-district play is very cool. We traveled to NC to play, and a few MI teams have been in IN.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by MikLast

Is there an official reason that this still isint allowed?

$$$$

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

East side Michigan teams and Ontario teams will have a chance to get together pre-CMP for the first time since GLR became MSC. Pretty cool.

As for us West Coast Michiganders, Indiana beckons. The Average Joes have been dreaming:

And for the other west coast of Michigan (west UP), if/when Wisconsin goes districts, we might be interested in an Oshkosh/Appleton event.