Inter-District Play for 2017

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Your revenue logic makes sense, except one point: For any "extra plays" in districts (3rd/4th plays, interdistrict plays, etc.), the extra play registration fee goes to the District Organization, not to FIRST. So FIRST does not see more revenue if all open district event slots get filled with interdistrict teams, but each District Organization would see additional revenue.

Ah, thank you for the information. I had no idea that districts had their own entities. On that note, are District Organizations just separate accounts within FIRST, or are they completely different legal entities?

I think the level of play on the field always goes up as more teams get more matches/events. This trend can be seen year after year.

I couldn't agree more.

TL;DR, FIRST loses 4k of potential revenue for every Regional team is allowed to play at a District event. I don't see FIRST allowing this situation, at least in the short term.

-Mike

Originally Posted by Drakxii

$4,000 of perceived revenue, teams like Cougar Robotics and Full Metal Jackets might never be able to afford a second regional. Also this is under the assumption that they won't change the pricing model for regional teams.

Just a quick idea would be to set regional to district reg to Nov 14th and then charge regional teams $1.5k, with $1k of it going to FIRST and $500 to the district. Everyone wins: district teams still get first shot at inter-districts, low income regional teams can play more, FIRST gets more money, and Districts get more money.

I would agree with Mike and say that we won't see much blending of the Regionals and Districts within the next few years. The more parties involved, the more complex everything becomes, and the longer the rollout would take. That's just how these things work.

But I do believe there is a potential solution out there, and a need to find the solution as soon as possible. There are teams out there that would pay for a practice event, and there are (maybe) events that could host these teams, allowing FIRST or the entities associated with FIRST to earn revenue, to allow FIRST to contribute and grow even more. Heck, this may be a way to bolster newly formed Districts that might have trouble filling out some of their more outlying events. But my main point is that FIRST and FIRSTers should be thinking about how to transition from the Regional system to the Districts system. At the moment, Districts are being formed after, and only after the Regional system has been proved to be untenable in a specific area. Granted, some of the Districts seemed to have been formed in a more healthy manner than others, which is a great thing. But I think if FIRST and FIRSTers in an area wait until they can't stand the Regional system to make the transition to Districts, there will be stragglers, and isolated pockets, and slowed growth in certain areas for years and years and years to come. So I would love to see solutions as how to blend and smooth the break between Regionals and Districts so that everyone can start to see the heightened levels of competitive play, intellectual challenge, and inspiration that FIRST can bring.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss

Ah, thank you for the information. I had no idea that districts had their own entities. On that note, are District Organizations just separate accounts within FIRST, or are they completely different legal entities?

They are different legal entities. Some have likened the district model to FRC's version of franchising. This is part of the large number of the behind-the-scene changes that come along with a region switching to the district system.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Knufire

They are different legal entities. Some have likened the district model to FRC's version of franchising. This is part of the large number of the behind-the-scene changes that come along with a region switching to the district system.

And I'll reference a prior post about some of those behind the scenes changes:

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

I'll elaborate on some of the behind the scenes changes, for the benefit of those who don't know (and are part of today's lucky ten thousand!).

The basic plan goes something like this...

1. Start a company (most likely a 501(3)(c)) to run your district. This can either be a continuation of an existing FIRST in <wherever>, or some new entity. For example, Virginia FIRST took on responsibility for the the Chesapeake District, while New England started their own entity.
2. Find people to work at said company to do all the things on this list.
3. Sign a Memorandum of Understanding with FIRST HQ so your company can operate FRC events on their behalf.
4. Start planning events... Let's say 12 district events, which nicely works out to 2 events/week for 6 weeks (whatever the number ends up being, there needs to be enough spots for each team to be guaranteed two events each). Plus a district championship, so 13 events total. So, x13...
   • You need a venue
   • You need to get the field to/from the venue
   • You need a full crew of volunteers and to feed them for a weekend.
   • You need an A/V setup
   • You'll probably need a generator, since most high schools can't meet the power requirements for the pits
   • All the media the goes along with an event (webcast, website, social accounts, etc.)
   • You'll need people to plan/run the event. With regionals, FIRST works with an event management company to do a lot of the legwork. In districts, you'll have to do it on your own.
   • Read the District Planning Guide and do all the things it says.
   • Find money/sponsorship to pay for all of the above
5. 13 events means you'll need two fields. So you'll have to purchase two fields at about $25,000 each, plus two sets of road cases to keep the fields in. You'll also need a place to store them when not in use.

I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but as you can see, it's a pretty substantial undertaking. This post/thread is a great resource as well.

[Tom Line]

Last time I checked, a third district in Michigan for a Michigan team was $500. Unless the prices in Michigan have changed and I missed it, it's no wonder Michigan teams stay at Michigan events and there are rarely openings. Why would FIRST actively discourage inter-district play by making it more expensive on TOP of the travel costs a team will incur if they want to go play with nearby friends?

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by ASD20

I think if FIRST/the districts really wanted to encourage inter-district play, they should at least open up registration the same time as 3rd plays.

This a thousand times. As long as in-state teams register for 3rd-events before out-of-state teams, it will continue to be infinitely difficult to district out-of-state. I'd wager that is the primary reason so few teams do out of state district events; they can't get in!

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Last time I checked, a third district in Michigan for a Michigan team was $500. Unless the prices in Michigan have changed and I missed it, it's no wonder Michigan teams stay at Michigan events and there are rarely openings. Why would FIRST actively discourage inter-district play by making it more expensive on TOP of the travel costs a team will incur if they want to go play with nearby friends?

I thought in the past out-of-state 3rd districts cost whatever an in-state 3rd district would have cost. Am I mistaken?

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

This a thousand times. As long as in-state teams register for 3rd-events before out-of-state teams, it will continue to be infinitely difficult to district out-of-state. I'd wager that is the primary reason so few teams do out of state district events; they can't get in!



I thought in the past out-of-state 3rd districts cost whatever an in-state 3rd district would have cost. Am I mistaken?

Actually, I just learned something. The district systems allowing inter-district play compromised on a $1000 price because some districts charge $500, and others charge $1000 for a third play.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Actually, I just learned something. The district systems allowing inter-district play compromised on a $1000 price because some districts charge $500, and others charge $1000 for a third play.

FiM and MAR charge $500 for an additional event.
PNW has their unique agreement with FIRST, not sure what their additional event fee is.
IN, NC, PCH, NE, CHS all charge $1000 for additional in-district plays.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knufire

FiM and MAR charge $500 for an additional event.
PNW has their unique agreement with FIRST, not sure what their additional event fee is.
IN, NC, PCH, NE, CBS all charge $1000 for additional in-district plays.

PNW is $1000 too.

The question is are FiM and MAR raising theirs to $1000 for next year too, or did FIRST not want to point out to those of us in the later forming districts that we pay twice the price as teams in those areas.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The question is are FiM and MAR raising theirs to $1000 for next year too, or did FIRST not want to point out to those of us in the later forming districts that we pay twice the price as teams in those areas.

This difference has existed for a number of years, ever since NE went districts. Given that this fee also goes directly to the local district organization, I don't think we can assume that FIRST HQ has control over the amount.

Personally, I don't mind the higher fee either. The money is going to a group of people that have more intimate knowledge of the region (and it's needs) and know how to best utilize it for the benefit of the local teams.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knufire

This difference has existed for a number of years, ever since NE went districts. Given that this fee also goes directly to the local district organization, I don't think we can assume that FIRST HQ has control over the amount.

Personally, I don't mind the higher fee either. The money is going to a group of people that have more intimate knowledge of the region (and it's needs) and know how to best utilize it for the benefit of the local teams.

Yes NE and PNW were the first to charge $1000 for additional plays and since then every new district has opted to charge that amount.

I'm not assuming that FIRST has mandated that price. Though they certainly have ultimate control on whether they sign the proposed MOU or not and could demand changes before they sign it. I don't believe that charging less than the other districts would be a sticking point for FIRST since they don't see any of that money. Now if a District proposed say $2500 for an additional play then I certainly could see FIRST pushing back on that. I know back when PNW started and the cost for additional plays was mentioned by FIRST they pointed out the different prices in the different Districts and this blog post represents a change from that.