Themes for FRC games

[Jay O'Donnell]

When the 2016 preview was released last fall, and the subsequent kickoff happened in January, there was a ton of push back from the community here about the medieval theme. I remember seeing people say (not necessarily on CD) that it was making FRC look childish and would ruin the atmosphere.

Now that we've been through a whole season of stronghold, what are your thoughts on the theme usage? Was a bad theme saved by a good game? Did you enjoy the theme more or less than you thought you would? Do you want to see themes used for future games?

[Bkeeneykid]

Honestly, I didn't see much use of it. For most people, they saw the theming on the field and screen and went "That's cool" then focused on the robot. Our team shirts were vaguely stronghold themed, but it didn't affect things. The only team I saw do a great job with the theme is 1939, the Kuhnigits, but that's because they're a Monty Python themed team all the time. Everyone always loves them going around the pits with their two coconuts, banging them together horses.

Honestly, I think it was a good idea for a better branding early on, then it just kinda seemed to disappear after kickoff. I think that's the best way of going about it.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Now that we've been through a whole season of stronghold, what are your thoughts on the theme usage? Was a bad theme saved by a good game? Did you enjoy the theme more or less than you thought you would? Do you want to see themes used for future games?

1) It was right for the game. Not tacked on, not forcing silly things on the game.
2) No, but if it was a bad game it would have been pilloried as evidence that FIRST wasn't putting the emphasis in the right places on game design.
3) More than I thought I would, but remember that we also just came off a recycling-themed game that was an absolute stinker.
4) Sure! Just keep the games good.

[NShep98]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Did you enjoy the theme more or less than you thought you would?

I dunno, ask Tim

[TheBoulderite]

I think it added a fun atmosphere. The Colorado MC, Todd, dressed up in a royalty costume to narrate the matches. At the end of the regional, when he announced the winners of the awards, he put on a jester hat and read aloud some poems that were created about the winners of the awards.

My favorite medieval aspect, though, is something I think was unique to the Colorado Regional. To crown the winners of the regional (1619, 1011, and 4550) Todd had the drive captain from each team come down to the field, where he proceeded to pull out a sword and knight them for their victory. The whole crowd loved it!

[Hitchhiker 42]

I think that the theme was useful in ways other than for us (the students and mentors). While most of us didn't really care about the theme and got down to business building and making a robot work, the theme was useful in the spreading of FIRST to others. The theme let outside spectators (those not actively involved with FIRST) to get more acquainted with the game and enjoy it more. In that sense, the theme definetly did a good job.

Beyond that, it was fun seeing entire hockey arenas filled up medieval-dressed people, pits, fields, and robots. I loved it!

[GeeTwo]

I liked the theme from day one (teaser). As Billfred noted, it worked naturally with the game mechanics. Kickoff was a bit over the top, but it's supposed to be. (Though this is the first time I can recall that I knew this much of the kickoff dialog before it was shown.) Even after kickoff, the theme was still used in the art design, such as with the scoreboards, and status and selection screens, and some of the communications (baguette and leg of mutton, anyone?). The standards were a great idea, and I hope they can incorporate team emblems into future themes. 3946 also used it as inspiration for our pit design (a castle), various costumes and swag, and the "arts and crafts" table at Bayou (decorating paper crowns). If you look at any crowd footage from Saturday at Bayou, you'll see those crowns everywhere.

Having a good game is key, of course - great theming won't redeem a stinker of a game. A good theme is good gravy.

[SenorZ]

As a very pragmatic person, I chose to not participate in the theme.

We read the rules, spent six weeks freaking out, and had a robot at the end. I think the theme was for the audience.

[Dan Petrovic]

I was a little nervous when that teaser was revealed because previous games with heavy-handed theming have been far from my favorites.

Now I know that correlation is not causation. Recycle Rush and Lunacy wouldn't have been much better if they took away the themes (although, RR would have felt a little less FLL-like...).

In the case of Stronghold, it still would have been a good game without the theme, but I do think the medieval theme helped in some ways - particularly in naming the different Defenses. It was largely unnecessary, though.

All in all, I'd prefer to avoid corny themes (do we really have to call these noodles "litter"?) but if they're going to use themes, I'd rather they not lead to core game mechanics that are frustrating to play with like the regolith from Lunacy or counter-clockwise motion of Overdrive.

[marshall]

I could definitely live without a theme... there is enough to do without having to make costumes and decorations. But I guess the students need something to do while the mentors build the robot...

[ilikerobots97]

I really enjoyed the game, but I'm not a fan of the medieval theme. Although I'm sure some FRC participants dug the theme, I think it ultimately damaged FRC's appeal to the general high school population.

As I'm guessing many others here on CD do, I take pleasure in showing off robotics to my friends (whether for recruiting or not). To explain FIRST / FRC, I usually watch insane reveal videos (118 in 2013, 148 in 2010, etc.) with them, as well as a bit of match play. Importantly, however, I try to avoid showing them any of the cheesiness associated with FIRST, and this year, it was certainly much harder.

In my honest opinion -- although again, I'm sure some FRC participants dig this, and I don't mean to offend anyone -- most high school students would cringe at parades of mascots dancing to "Cotton-Eyed Joe", using the word "coopertate" (as featured on The Fosters), and watching an emcee -- who is dressed up in a medieval costume -- talk as if he was actually from the middle age.

In high school (I just graduated), I was on a relatively smaller team, and I was the only one on my team who played a sport. When I was trying to recruit my friends (many of whom did play sports), most were immediately turned off by the "silliness" -- which I feel sometimes masked the competitiveness of FRC -- and many poked fun at me for being involved in such a corny program.

I think that if FIRST was more focused on robotics and less on the corny aspects associated with robotics, it would be able to appeal to a far larger number of students. I get the idea that the corniness helps students overcome being intimidated, but I think the subset of high school students who don't want to do robotics due to the stigma of participating in a "nerdy" activity has a much greater cardinality than the subset of students who are too intimidated to do robotics (but would be willing to join if they saw mascots dancing to the "Cotton-Eyed Joe").

I might have a pretty unpopular opinion here, but I just thought I'd share my two cents.

[KosmicKhaos]

Keeping in mind this is a competition for high school aged students, ages 13-18, I don't believe a theme is the way to go for trying to rope in high school students not already involved. As I'm sure people have already said, if I was not already involved in FIRST I would not think to join a team after seeing the mid evil theme. Themes seem very childish and something that should stay in FLL, not in a high school competition. If they are to continue themes, sports themes are the way to go to rope in students not already involved in my opinion.

It also seems that the mid evil theme might confuse non FIRST people. Especially in the trailer video. We are a high school robotics competition, not something that necessarily needs a theme.

[tjwolter]

I was mentor to a first year team. The point about trying to appeal to a broader audience is well said. OTOH I had a couple of kids who were avid D and D players who loved it! And in retrospect it did seem to sharpen thinking as to what the elements of the game ultimately would be. Worth it for that I say.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by tjwolter

I was mentor to a first year team. The point about trying to appeal to a broader audience is well said. OTOH I had a couple of kids who were avid D and D players who loved it! And in retrospect it did seem to sharpen thinking as to what the elements of the game ultimately would be. Worth it for that I say.

Now if they would just come up a Gnome or French Fries theme....


I wanted to point out that the theme probably will give the game longer recognizability over time. As a first year mentor on a 9 year old team I would hear previous year game names a lot and they generally confused me even though I had some familiarity with games.

[tjwolter]

Now how EXACTLY did you find out about the Gnomes.....http://detritusofempire.blogspot.com...urbognome.html