Has anyone ever gotten a Penalty for T6

[dirtbikerxz]

Just wanted to know, has anyone ever broken T6 and gotten a penalty? Especially in a situation of using offensive language.

I personally, have sworn a couple of times behind the driver's station. Just an occasional da*n and sh*t. Has anyone ever gotten a penalty for doing that?

A link to a screenshot of T6 for a quick reference: http://imgur.com/a/OAjwH

[EricH]

And for those who don't want a link, here's the quote from the Manual:

Originally Posted by Section 5

T6 All Teams must be civil towards their own Team members, other Teams, competition personnel, FIELD staff, and event attendees while at an FIRST Robotics Competition event.

Violation: Behavior will be discussed with Team or individual. Violations of this rule are likely to escalate to YELLOW or RED CARDS rapidly (i.e. the threshold for egregious or repeated violations is relatively low.)

Examples of incivility include, but are not limited to, use of offensive language or bullying behavior.

I have never seen any penalty called for a T6 violation (or the equivalent in past games), though it's always been in there. I would suspect that the possibility of an on-field penalty for off-field actions is enough to convince coaches to go over proper behavior standards with their teams. Also, because the first penalty is that the behavior is discussed, it's unlikely to actually escalate to an announced penalty.


That being said, I may be aware of one or more violations that never got past discussion levels (not entirely sure). The fact that the first penalty is a discussion--often with event staff--is, I think, far more effective than simply dishing out cards or penalties, for a wide variety of reasons.

And... I think we can all understand the stress behind the driver's station.

[anushad]

I've definitely heard of people being warned by event staff of the consequences of this violation (i.e. being told to stop their behavior before consequences resulted), but I have never heard of it actually being implemented. Honestly, I think that they know some swearing is going to happen behind the driver station, but they're covering for issues like threats and harassment.

[bobbysq]

I'm pretty sure since T6 refers to use of language to staff, you would be fine just swearing behind the driver station. If, say a ball was stuck and a volunteer has to get the pole and you say "Just get the ***ing ball out already!" that would be a penalty.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

Just wanted to know, has anyone ever broken T6 and gotten a penalty? Especially in a situation of using offensive language.

I personally, have sworn a couple of time behind the drive station. Just an occasional da*n and sh*t. Has anyone ever gotten a penalty for doing that?

A link to a screenshot of T6 for a quick reference: http://imgur.com/a/OAjwH

[Edit: sniped, but it all still looks valid] While I haven't been on a drive team, I don't think they're so much worried about vulgar expletives directed at your own performance as much as truly offensive comments directed at other people, such as other team members and field crew. IIRC, one of the featured speakers at CMP set the bar for "offensive language" due to pure vulgarity pretty high.

On the other hand, it never hurts to reign it in as much as you can. I work for the US Navy in a branch consisting largely of retired sailors. When I started with the group, one in particular couldn't string together ten words without using at least two words I wouldn't want my mother or grandmother to hear. We implemented a "fine jar" at our branch meetings, for offensive comments for a few years - 25 cents. The money went into a fund to buy lunch for the group at a pizza tavern or sports bar every few months where we did a good bit of bonding. We discontinued when we realized that the vulgarity was under control, and the fines were being willingly paid up front as license to kvetch. Our problematic retired chief now cusses freely (almost under his breath) in his cubicle at the computer, but is now presentable in public when the need arises. You can get it under control.

[ratdude747]

In 2014 at crossroads regional there was an incident between a ref and a spectator that as reported at the time would have fallen under that and resulted in a red turned yellow (after a call to HQ). What I don't remember if the rule formally existed then (IIRC it had some effect on the rules going forward?).

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

In 2014 at crossroads regional there was an incident between a ref and a spectator that as reported at the time would have fallen under that and resulted in a red turned yellow (after a call to HQ). What I don't remember if the rule existed then (IIRC it had some effect on the rules going forward?).

There was a rule. The "civility rule" has been in the manual for a long long time. [Edit] Found it, courtesy of FIRST's archive.

Originally Posted by 2014 Manual

3.2.3.5 G13
All Teams must be civil towards other Teams, competition personnel, and event attendees.
Violation: Potential RED CARD for violations in the ARENA.
Teams will not receive RED/YELLOW CARDS for off-ARENA actions; however,
designated competition personnel will hold them accountable for their off-ARENA actions.

That would have been a red if that was the rule, but then there was another rule, also a longtime rule. The "egregious behavior" rule, in fact, is in exactly the same place as it was this year.

Originally Posted by 2014 Manual

5.5.4 YELLOW and RED CARDS
The Head Referee may assign a YELLOW or RED CARD as a result of egregious ROBOT or Team member behavior at the ARENA. A RED CARD results in DISQUALIFICATION.

I'm guessing that the ref called "uncivil behavior in the Arena" and HQ downgraded to "egregious team member behavior".

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by EricH

There was a rule. The "civility rule" has been in the manual for a long long time. [Edit] Found it, courtesy of FIRST's archive.


That would have been a red if that was the rule, but then there was another rule, also a longtime rule. The "egregious behavior" rule, in fact, is in exactly the same place as it was this year.

I'm guessing that the ref called "uncivil behavior in the Arena" and HQ downgraded to "egregious team member behavior".

I'd agree with that assessment. IIRC the reason it was kept at all (and not reduced to "no card") was that FIRST wanted to send a message that physical incidents with referees would not be tolerated or condoned. However, that's based on my iffy memory and probably not officially public information (it's over 2 years ago, statute of limitations?).

[Jon Stratis]

There have been a few incidents while I've been volunteering that I've talked some kids down. if you just saw transcripts, those teams would probably have been deserving of this rule, but I never, not once, felt the need to escalate it to that point. They were upset, emotions running high, and just needed a chance to vent some so they could get things under control. I was always happy, in those situations, to be the person they could vent to, away from the field and the refs.

[Koko Ed]

I have never seen T6 ever used at a competition. Mostly when teams cause enough problems to be dealt with the threat of contact a judge adviser about their behavior is much more effective to get their attention.
At championships we had to have a talk with an (ironically) Ei winning team for their exceptionally rude behavior toward the volunteers (especially the female volunteers) that extended all the way back to the previous year.Once they were aware that we were paying attention to their behavior they behaved themselves.
I will be keeping a very close eye on them this year at the championships and if they continue the behavior I will see to it that the proper steps are taken against them to correct the behavior.

[Hitchhiker 42]

What works for me to definetly avoid these is to substitute those swears for words/phrases like "gosh golly gee" and "gosh darn it." I've used those so much now, they're kinda a part of my general vocabulary now

[scottgoering]

Originally Posted by EricH

There was a rule. The "civility rule" has been in the manual for a long long time. [Edit] Found it, courtesy of FIRST's archive.


That would have been a red if that was the rule, but then there was another rule, also a longtime rule. The "egregious behavior" rule, in fact, is in exactly the same place as it was this year.

I'm guessing that the ref called "uncivil behavior in the Arena" and HQ downgraded to "egregious team member behavior".

Good call on the "civility rule". You'll notice that T6 specifically changes the civility rule and allows for cards to be issued outside of the ARENA. That is, the old G13 said "Teams will not receive RED/YELLOW CARDS for off-ARENA actions" while T6 says "All Teams must be civil towards their own Team members, other Teams, competition personnel, FIELD staff, and event attendees while at an FIRST Robotics Competition event."

I believe FIRST did this intentionally, to allow the refs to card teams who behaved poorly outside of the field of play (i.e. in the stands or in the pits). As defined in the 2014 rule book, the ARENA is

Originally Posted by Section 2.1

The ARENA includes all elements of the game infrastructure that are required to play AERIAL ASSIST: the FIELD, the
ALLIANCE STATIONS, the BALLS, and all supporting communications, ARENA control, and scorekeeping equipment.

.