[FRC Blog]2017 Updates

[bkahl]

Tbh I kinda like the round robin.

Every alliance has to play eachother, so it will likely bring more strategic depth to play. I would have loved to see more of this year's Einstein alliances play each other. The two (four) deepest and best alliances will likely be duking it out on (both) Saturday(s).

Also, not only will we have a better idea of when the day will be over, the afternoon will also be shorter than Einstein has been in the past. We all know that's a blessing.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Tbh I kinda like the round robin.

Every alliance has to play eachother, so it will likely bring more strategic depth to play. I would have loved to see more of this year's Einstein alliances play each other. The two (four) deepest and best alliances will likely be duking it out on (both) Saturday(s).

Also, not only will we have a better idea of when the day will be over; the afternoon will also be shorter than Einstein has been in the past. We all know that's a blessing.

The length of the Saturday will most likely depend on how many speakers FIRST rolls out than how many matches they play.

[dirtbikerxz]

Could someone please explain what Round-Robin is, and how the two "best" alliances are selected out of that?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

Could someone please explain what Round-Robin is, and how the two "best" alliances are selected out of that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_tournament
A six team round robin tournament schedule would look like this:

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_tournament
A six team round robin tournament schedule would look like this:

I'm guessing there's nothing too special about the order of each round?

If not, by switching 3v4 and 6v1 within Round 2 and switching 6v2 and 4v1 within Round 4, you could avoid having a team ever play a match back-to-back.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

I'm guessing there's nothing too special about the order of each round?

If not, by switching 3v4 and 6v1 within Round 2 and switching 6v2 and 4v1 within Round 4, you could avoid having a team ever play a match back-to-back.

I was thinking about that earlier, but as some people have pointed out, there are plenty of speeches that can fill time between matches.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

I'm guessing there's nothing too special about the order of each round?

If not, by switching 3v4 and 6v1 within Round 2 and switching 6v2 and 4v1 within Round 4, you could avoid having a team ever play a match back-to-back.

I think that Koko Ed was just showing an example of a Round Robin, devil is always in the details.

I like the Round Robin as the finals, it does let every team play against each other.

The only thing would be the "disaster the robot broke" matches, you'd then need to win the others to stay in contention.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

I'm guessing there's nothing too special about the order of each round?

If not, by switching 3v4 and 6v1 within Round 2 and switching 6v2 and 4v1 within Round 4, you could avoid having a team ever play a match back-to-back.

Correct. The above schedule could be optimized as you describe. There's actually some cool math behind optimal scheduling of round robin tournaments. Take a look:

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/54715.html

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Also, not only will we have a better idea of when the day will be over; the afternoon will also be shorter than Einstein has been in the past. We all know that's a blessing.

I wouldn't say it'll be shorter.

A 6-team round-robin tournament is 15 matches in total. Add in the 2-3 match finals, and you'll have 17-18 matches in total. (average of 17.5 matches)

Compare that to last year, where you had 8-12 matches in the quarters, 4-6 in the semi's, and 2-3 in the finals. That gives you a range of 14-21 (Average of 17.5 matches).

So, on average, we'll have the same number of matches on Einstein with 6 divisions as we did with 8 divisions. The variance is just less, which hopefully makes for a more predictable day, even if the match schedule doesn't make it any shorter. As Koko Ed pointed out, though, there's more time spent between matches on Einstein than in matches. If we really want a shorter day, we need to tackle that time block, not the matches themselves.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I wouldn't say it'll be shorter.

A 6-team round-robin tournament is 15 matches in total. Add in the 2-3 match finals, and you'll have 17-18 matches in total. (average of 17.5 matches)

Compare that to last year, where you had 8-12 matches in the quarters, 4-6 in the semi's, and 2-3 in the finals. That gives you a range of 14-21 (Average of 17.5 matches).

So, on average, we'll have the same number of matches on Einstein with 6 divisions as we did with 8 divisions. The variance is just less, which hopefully makes for a more predictable day, even if the match schedule doesn't make it any shorter. As Koko Ed pointed out, though, there's more time spent between matches on Einstein than in matches. If we really want a shorter day, we need to tackle that time block, not the matches themselves.

FIRST likes to make Einstein a big production, often at the expense of Einstein itself.

[wesbass23]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Every alliance has to play each other, so it will likely bring more strategic depth to play.

But they only play each other once, leaving no room to adjust your strategy if you lose to an alliance.

[bobbysq]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Also, not only will we have a better idea of when the day will be over, the afternoon will also be shorter than Einstein has been in the past. We all know that's a blessing.

So we can have division octofinals?

(Just kidding, I know this will never happen due to the skill gap at Worlds. The alliances would probably end up weaker than at regionals)

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by bobbysq

So we can have division octofinals?

(Just kidding, I know this will never happen due to the skill gap at Worlds. The alliances would probably end up weaker than at regionals)

I'm willing to bet that at least one division at South Championships will be weaker than at least some regionals or District Qualifying Events.

[D.Allred]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I'm willing to bet that at least one division at South Championships will be weaker than at least some regionals or District Qualifying Events.

I was guessing most will at least be the same as some of the large regionals we attend, most likely a bit stronger. However, with lower depth across the South Champs it will only take a few top robots to skew the difference between the six divisions.

David