Optimal motor controllers?

[Ringo5tarr]

First of all, thanks for paying this post any mind.

Secondly, I've been looking through the possible options for motor controllers for my team in the upcoming year, as we have been pretty outdated purely relying on Talon SRs and (for our backup) victor 888s. From what I've gathered, the two top contenders for the current motor controller are the Talon SRX/Victor SP and the SPARK, however I've also found that the SD540(B) also seems immensely useful as well as smaller than the SPARK, so what does your teams use? What do you suggest? Are the SD540Bs the only ones that come in banking models?

Once again, thank you

[Bkeeneykid]

I would highly recommend against the SD540B, and you can see the reasons why here: https://www.amazon.com/review/R1JCF3...toys-and-games

TL;DR: The case is 3D printed, feels like it's going to fall apart, the solder joints are pretty bad, and (not mentioned in that review) only seven teams used them this year.

I'd recommend going for the SPARK unless you REALLY need the space or the CAN abilities. The CAN is nice, but unless you're really tight on wiring space or need those nice features, like built in PID control or more control over aspects of the motor controller through code, you don't need it. I made the mistake of thinking we did need these this year, and I wasted $40 and a free motor controller through the voucher.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

I would highly recommend against the SD540B, and you can see the reasons why here: https://www.amazon.com/review/R1JCF3...toys-and-games

TL;DR: The case is 3D printed, feels like it's going to fall apart, the solder joints are pretty bad, and (not mentioned in that review) only seven teams used them this year.

I'd recommend going for the SPARK unless you REALLY need the space or the CAN abilities. The CAN is nice, but unless you're really tight on wiring space or need those nice features, like built in PID control or more control over aspects of the motor controller through code, you don't need it. I made the mistake of thinking we did need these this year, and I wasted $40 and a free motor controller through the voucher.

HUGE second on the SD540B. You can also read more about why in this CD thread: https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139581. The banking capability is also something you generally don't want, because when one fails you are essentially stuck with a dead controller on your robot.

I think the Spark is great for a budget model, but I'm also a huge fan of the Talon SRX. They have a small form factor, and the ease of wiring just CAN is the main selling point for me. It's way easier to chain all of the controllers together with just one wire on each, rather than have half a dozen PWM wires going to your RoboRio. We used them this season and they were fantastic.

TL;DR: SD540B is not very good, Spark is a good all-around inexpensive option, and the Talon SRX is awesome.

Hope that helps!

[Billfred]

I've used every legal motor controller from 2004 on, save for the SD540B. It's very hard to go wrong with any of the options on the market, so now your questions are:

1) Will you want CAN? If so, you want a Talon SRX.
2) Will you want higher-than-FRC voltages for other applications? If so, you want a Talon SR (if you can find one), Talon SRX, or certain antediluvian Victor 883s if you can find an old team's junk pile.

The latter question was important to a recent project of mine--turns out an 18V drill motor makes a handy power source sometimes!

[sanddrag]

Note, black Jaguars could do up to 30V as well.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Note, black Jaguars could do up to 30V as well.

Accurate (PDF, page 4). (I think I shut the Jaguars out of my mind completely...but then, if you're digging in a junk pile, perhaps that's a good thing!)

[AlexanderLuke]

Originally Posted by frcguy

I think the Spark is great for a budget model, but I'm also a huge fan of the Talon SRX. They have a small form factor, and the ease of wiring just CAN is the main selling point for me. It's way easier to chain all of the controllers together with just one wire on each, rather than have half a dozen PWM wires going to your RoboRio. We used them this season and they were fantastic.

I am in agreement with your statements on the Spark and the Talon SRX. If you (the OP) are looking for a reference from a team that used the Spark during the 2016 season, I know that 3309 was running at least four of them at both LA and Ventura, if not all their motor controllers were the Spark. I am sure that there were plenty of other teams as well, but 3309 is just one that comes to mind for me.

The only thing that I do not like about the Spark is the large footprint, and the only thing I do not like about the Talon SRX is the price. For both the 2015 and 2016 seasons, we on Team 696 have been using the Victor SP; its a middle ground in some sense. You get the nice and small form factor with a bit lower price than the Talon SRX but, of course, you do not get CAN. We have been happy with the product for the past two years, and used PWM motor controllers for plenty of years before that, so there are no major complaints from us on the Victor SP. Only down side I could think of is the predetermined PWM cable length. In a perfect scenario, your motor controllers are not "that" far from the RoboRio, but I have seen teams have to make extension cables for their Victor SPs. I got excited when the OP said they used the Talon SR, I miss the days of getting to make PWM cables to whatever length you wanted.

I would recommend the Spark, Victor SP, or Talon SRX. They are all great products, but with their pros and cons to each of course.

[pilleya]

If your using Talon SR’s are they are working well for you there isn’t necessarily a need to change (providing you have a decent stockpile that will last you a few more seasons).

The SPARK and the SD540B’s aresimilar to the Talon SR both in design and functionality if you need more controllers they could be a good option due to their low cost (SPARK is the better option of the two), but if you already have a lot of SR’s then moving to SPARK’s or SD540B’s may not be a necessary upgrade( unless you want features like the limit switch inputs on the SPARK etc.)

In regards to the Victor SP vs Talon SRX, it really just depends on whether you want to move to CAN or want to continue using PWM.

If you are planning to continue using PWM staying with your existing SR’s would probably be fine, if you want to make the move to CAN (it’s not difficult and has a lot of advantages) the Talon SRX is the only option that can be bought new off the shelf (at the moment).

[adciv]

I recommend either the Talon SRX or the Victor SP. They are particularly useful due to the mounting options available and their reliability. We mounted our four drive Talons in an out of the way location by bolting them to the frame and didn't have any issues.

As for which to get, start looking a few years down the line. Yes, CAN is more expensive but it does buy you a few things with feedback and wiring. Figure out which route you want to go and start purchasing those a few at a time. Also, remember you can run Talon SRXs over PWM, not just CAN.

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I've used every legal motor controller from 2004 on, save for the SD540B. It's very hard to go wrong with any of the options on the market, so now your questions are:

1) Will you want CAN? If so, you want a Talon SRX.
2) Will you want higher-than-FRC voltages for other applications? If so, you want a Talon SR (if you can find one), Talon SRX, or certain antediluvian Victor 883s if you can find an old team's junk pile.

The latter question was important to a recent project of mine--turns out an 18V drill motor makes a handy power source sometimes!

Funny lesson learned a while back for me on the 883.

The really old 883s without the PWM shroud are 12V only. They'll work @ 24V for a very short time before going poof.

The newer 883s with the PWM shroud are rated for 24V.

[FrankJ]

For a basic PWM motor controller the "outdated" Talon SR is hard to beat. About the only down side is you cannot buy them new anymore. Others have already commented on the current crop

[Chris is me]

Lots of different constraints here. It's hard to go wrong between the Talons, Victors, and Sparks available. Even "outdated" controllers are pretty good and should be competitive.

Avoid Jaguars, if they are even still legal at this point. They don't have a great track record for reliability, and while later (black) Jaguars were better, there isn't much reason to use them over a Talon unless you desperately need to save money and they are donated to you from an old team.

Victor SPs and Talon SRXes have both served my team (228) very well this past year. Basically you use a Talon anywhere you might want to implement PID speed or position control on the controller itself, and a Victor anywhere you don't need that functionality. The performance is similar; cost and functionality are the difference makers. Keep in mind a Talon can be used as a regular PWM controller if you prefer.

Sparks are something I don't have direct experience, but my old team (2791) used them this year without any problems. The footprint is a little larger, but they are very inexpensive, robust, and they have some handy little features (limit switch input, the LED has a bunch of different pretty colors, some people prefer screw terminals, etc). The main downside is the larger footprint, which bugs some people.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by Billfred

2) Will you want higher-than-FRC voltages for other applications? If so, you want a Talon SR (if you can find one), Talon SRX, or certain antediluvian Victor 883s if you can find an old team's junk pile.

Just a note of clarification, that the SPARK will handle up to 30 volts.