Why use a manifold?

[ollien]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Fewer connections means fewer chances of leaks in your pneumatic system. This is especially important on any portions of your pressure system connected to your storage. Plumbing your system in series allows for any leaks on the storage side to drain all your remaining reserve air. Using a manifold mitigates the risk of that happening.

There are also weight, size/space, and aesthetic considerations.

Ah. That makes sense. So basically the manifold ITSELF doesn't provide any advantages/disadvantages, but the tubing runs that go along with it do, correct?

[Chris Fultz]

We use manifolds for a few reasons -

1. Cleaner installation. They are easy to install and mount near the pressure regulating valve.

2. Flexibility with design. We usually decide how many solenoids we will need, and then add one more solenoid than that. As the design develops, we have that extra solenoid readily available to connect to if we add another actuator.

3. Simplified tube routing. A single input line at the manifold.

4. Failures. If a solenoid fails, it is easy to connect the needed lines to the spare solenoid and quickly get back in play.

The negatives are that they are a little heavier, and can be expensive. However, they last several years and can be re-used.

[FrankJ]

Automation Direct sales manifolds for their valves that is cost competitive with the additional plumbing that singles require. A lot easier to mount one manifold than multiple individual valves.

One reason not to use a manifold is if you trying to minimize pressure losses to a high flow device like a shooter cylinder. Then you want to mount the vavle close to the device and minimize your tubing length. (You could use bigger tubing, but you wouldn't pass robot inspection.)

[ollien]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

One reason not to use a manifold is if you trying to minimize pressure losses to a high flow device like a shooter cylinder. Then you want to mount the vavle close to the device and minimize your tubing length. (You could use bigger tubing, but you wouldn't pass robot inspection.)

Why would the manifold result in worse performance for the shooter?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by ollien

Why would the manifold result in worse performance for the shooter?

You have a single oriface for air to enter all solenoids, acting as a combined flow limit.

If on separate manifolds the flow limit is decreased (assuming logical tube sizes, tank attachment and layout).

[ollien]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You have a single oriface for air to enter all solenoids, acting as a combined flow limit.

If on separate manifolds the flow limit is decreased (assuming logical tube sizes, tank attachment and layout).

The first part makes sense, but are you saying that if you separate the shooter from the manifold you'll have fewer restrictions? Do manifolds have a cv rating?

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You have a single oriface for air to enter all solenoids, acting as a combined flow limit.

If on separate manifolds the flow limit is decreased (assuming logical tube sizes, tank attachment and layout).

Taken to the extreme you mount the valve directly to the port on the side of the cylinder that needs the most speed. Run supply tubing directly back to the working pressure regulator locating the component for the shortest runs and bends possible. This will not take you from worst to first, but might help when you are battling your arch rival on Einstein for the fraction of advantage. (Of which we have not have had that pleasure yet)

[IndySam]

Air flowing through tubing offers resistance. If you want quick response like on a shooter or kicker, you want as little tube as possible.

The other reason is to reduce air load. The longer the tube the more air you waste but with no limits on storage this isn't as important as it once was.

[GeeTwo]

Based on some number crunching I did during build this year, it appeared that the fastest cylinder performance would be to have a large tank (at least twice and preferably three times as large as the cylinder capacity) on the working pressure side of the regulator, then feeding directly from the tank to the solenoid valve to the cylinder. We did not get to test this, as it turned out the valves we were using had much too low a cv for this to make a difference.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Based on some number crunching I did during build this year, it appeared that the fastest cylinder performance would be to have a large tank (at least twice and preferably three times as large as the cylinder capacity) on the working pressure side of the regulator, then feeding directly from the tank to the solenoid valve to the cylinder. We did not get to test this, as it turned out the valves we were using had much too low a cv for this to make a difference.

I can tell you from experience this is true. This is how we plumed our soccer ball kicker on our Breakaway bot and it made a big difference.

[IndySam]

The other reason to use a manifold is the exhaust air exiting through the manifold makes a cool sound.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by IndySam

The other reason to use a manifold is the exhaust air exiting through the manifold makes a cool sound.

Truth. Coolness of sound is, by far, the most accurate figure of merit for any FIRST robot.

[FrankJ]

A little of topic but. Bimba, a great supporter of First and is also is sort of the standard of the cylinders that we use has published a handbook on pneumatic design. Sizing of cylinders included.

[ollien]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Based on some number crunching I did during build this year, it appeared that the fastest cylinder performance would be to have a large tank (at least twice and preferably three times as large as the cylinder capacity) on the working pressure side of the regulator, then feeding directly from the tank to the solenoid valve to the cylinder. We did not get to test this, as it turned out the valves we were using had much too low a cv for this to make a difference.

Is there a reason for this? I had heard this once our season ended and I was annoyed that we hadn't tried it to fix our shooter.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I can tell you from experience this is true. This is how we plumed our soccer ball kicker on our Breakaway bot and it made a big difference.

Always good to know that the math gave the right answer!

Originally Posted by ollien

Is there a reason for this? I had heard this once our season ended and I was annoyed that we hadn't tried it to fix our shooter.

Essentially, the air on the working side of the regulator is already there, ready to work. The air on the high side has to filter its way through the pressure regulator, which is not as fast. The tank needs to be significantly larger than the working piston so that there is not too much pressure drop in the supply during the stroke.

Also note that if you are going for a fast stroke, your cylinder should be large enough to move the load (slowly) at a rather low pressure, somewhere around 35psi/(desired acceleration + gravity), with acceleration measured in gees. There will be around 20 psi drop going through the solenoid valve, and pressure reduction as the cylinder extends (or retracts); the remainder is F=ma. (I am assuming here that your fast stroke is for the purpose of working against gravity to throw a ball or other object.)