Pockets on Women's Pants

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Whatever

When I was mentoring FTC we ended up having a discussion with the driver of the robot as to whether she should be wearing a purse while driving. I was concerned that it looks unprofessional and could effect their draft position. She did it anyways and they did get drafted as the second pick of the first alliance in their division. They also ended up using one of the pictures of her while driving in the event programs during the next year.

I did notice the head referee of the division we were in at worlds also wore a purse while refereeing. I still think it looks unprofessional but maybe it is just me.

Is it unprofessional for a man to have a pocket bulging with his wallet or phone in it while driving a robot or refereeing? If not, why is it unprofessional for a woman to wear a small bag holding similar items while performing the same tasks?

The only reason I could possibly imagine saying that wearing a purse is unprofessional is if such an item affects a person's performance in their role. I don't think that would be the case with either of the situations you highlighted - a properly secured bag could easily handle the rigors of walking back and forth around the field without getting in the way.

[FrankJ]

My only concern with a purse would be the same as any number of dangles a person might wear, and that would be dangers from moving machinery. Not really an issue for a driver or a referee, much more so for pit crew.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Whatever

When I was mentoring FTC we ended up having a discussion with the driver of the robot as to whether she should be wearing a purse while driving. I was concerned that it looks unprofessional and could effect their draft position. She did it anyways and they did get drafted as the second pick of the first alliance in their division. They also ended up using one of the pictures of her while driving in the event programs during the next year.

I did notice the head referee of the division we were in at worlds also wore a purse while refereeing. I still think it looks unprofessional but maybe it is just me.

You might want to take a step back and try and figure out why you find a purse specifically unprofessional. There's obviously some gendered connotations to this, and perhaps to some extent your internal view of what constitutes "professional" includes "non-feminine". That's probably not great.

Even if you think anybody holding any kind of bag anywhere looks unprofessional - which gender's default clothing has pockets that are so small, going without a bag isn't always an option? This is an internal bias that is going to cause you to view more women as unprofessional than men.

We all have internal biases over things that, in a vacuum, logically make sense, but when applied to society as a whole tend to distort our views toward particular groups. This doesn't make you a bad person or whatever, it's just something to be aware of and to try and counteract.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by adciv

After a quick consult with some active relatives, I found some pants which meet storage criteria.

The only downside to those is the $50 price tag. Official BSA anything has a pretty significant price hike because you're paying for a lot more than the pants. I asked some of my female Venturing friends, and they said that they've found good, practical pants that look like the Venturing pants at REI and JC Penny.
Your mileage may vary.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss

The only downside to those is the $50 price tag. Official BSA anything has a pretty significant price hike because you're paying for a lot more than the pants. I asked some of my female Venturing friends, and they said that they've found good, practical pants that look like the Venturing pants at REI and JC Penny.
Your mileage may vary.

Not that anybody really cares that much, but BSA uniform are only meant to be purchased by BSA members. They are price competitive for zip off pants. Fit on the men's side is hit or miss. Fits some better than others. They are optimized towards light weight and quick drying. Not the best for the rigors of working around machinery. Campmor also makes a version of these.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Fit on the men's side is hit or miss.

I only have two pairs at the moment because I have to take the waist portion of the small pants and the legs portion of mediums, use some sewing witchcraft I learned from a friend, and cobble them together. I hate having to wear official pants.

[vhcook]

The war on women's pockets has driven me crazy my whole life. I'll admit I have a minority view on fashion, but I wish our society would prioritize comfort and function over whatever is "in" this year. What's "in" frequently is (at least in women's clothes) flimsy and difficult to maintain.

I've get most of my pants from http://makeyourownjeans.com, who will make them to measure, allow you to select the fabric style and weight from a pretty broad range, and put actual usable pockets in even if you're female. They're the most functional and comfortable jeans I've ever had, they mostly have held up well, and I don't have to carry a purse anymore unless I want to. Admittedly, they have a 6 week or more lead time, they're relatively expensive ($60ish + shipping), and they're being made in India, so there are some trade-offs.

For competition, I add on a bat-belt and/or fishing vest, depending on what my role for the day is. I find with the fishing vest I need to make sure my total pocket mass is fairly light or I have problems with the vest digging into the back of my neck, but it's great for my scouting load-out. For inspecting, the bat-belt is cooler (temperature-wise) and doesn't get in the way when I need to stick my head in a strange robot to get a look at some oddly placed components. Both of these solutions are easy to remove at the end of the day when I need to get into the car, and mean I don't end up walking into a restaurant with all my gear.

[Rombus]

Originally Posted by frcguy

Public safety (Fire/Police/EMS) pants are a great choice. They're built for utility and durability, and many companies offer them in a good assortment of women's sizes. Most of them have a wide range of pockets too, especially those designed for EMTs and paramedics.

I got to second this, and give some love to 5.11 Tactical. I wear 5.11 TacLite Pro Pants for just about everything, including work, robotics and FTAAing. They are comfortable, cool, durable and look very khaki like so they are great for business casual use. I have 5 pairs that are my "Work" pants that are going strong after 2 years of Cable Tech use. Pocket wise they have 8 pockets and a strap for hanging carabiners, all of them are useful and don't get in the way if they are full. Also once nice feature is reinforced knees that can take neoprene knee-pad inserts, for me its a godsend when building and tearing apart the field and working on bots.

The women styles are at http://www.511tactical.com/womens/womens-pants.html

I know it the prices might seem high, but they last a LONG time, and you can usually find deals by checking out some of there re-sellers.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by vhcook

For competition, I add on a bat-belt and/or fishing vest, depending on what my role for the day is. I find with the fishing vest I need to make sure my total pocket mass is fairly light or I have problems with the vest digging into the back of my neck, but it's great for my scouting load-out. For inspecting, the bat-belt is cooler (temperature-wise) and doesn't get in the way when I need to stick my head in a strange robot to get a look at some oddly placed components. Both of these solutions are easy to remove at the end of the day when I need to get into the car, and mean I don't end up walking into a restaurant with all my gear.

The easy solution to this is to put something in the back pocket. The LRI vests are the same way, but putting some stuff in the back is perfect. It doesn't really take much, either - an iPad or a bottle of water will easily keep your neck feeling good!

[techhelpbb]

I'm a little surprised that $50 for a pair of pants is considered high.
Owing to the fact that I have to shop for 34" inseam because of my height and some other strange measurements for the legs that make some cheaper pants fit poorly.

My jeans and dress pants cost $60+ each.
Guess I am over achieving for the guys!

Now my business suits - those are at least $1,000 each.
If I had to wear them everyday it would pay to fly to Asia for custom suits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIjQhobMv5Y

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by Rombus

I got to second this, and give some love to 5.11 Tactical. I wear 5.11 TacLite Pro Pants for just about everything, including work, robotics and FTAAing. They are comfortable, cool, durable and look very khaki like so they are great for business casual use. I have 5 pairs that are my "Work" pants that are going strong after 2 years of Cable Tech use. Pocket wise they have 8 pockets and a strap for hanging carabiners, all of them are useful and don't get in the way if they are full. Also once nice feature is reinforced knees that can take neoprene knee-pad inserts, for me its a godsend when building and tearing apart the field and working on bots.

The women styles are at http://www.511tactical.com/womens/womens-pants.html

I know it the prices might seem high, but they last a LONG time, and you can usually find deals by checking out some of there re-sellers.

+1 for 5.11. I don't own any of their pants but I have several bags, jackets, etc. from them and they are all great. I also have several family members that are firefighters and they all love their stuff.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

You might want to take a step back and try and figure out why you find a purse specifically unprofessional. There's obviously some gendered connotations to this, and perhaps to some extent your internal view of what constitutes "professional" includes "non-feminine". That's probably not great.

Even if you think anybody holding any kind of bag anywhere looks unprofessional - which gender's default clothing has pockets that are so small, going without a bag isn't always an option? This is an internal bias that is going to cause you to view more women as unprofessional than men.

We all have internal biases over things that, in a vacuum, logically make sense, but when applied to society as a whole tend to distort our views toward particular groups. This doesn't make you a bad person or whatever, it's just something to be aware of and to try and counteract.

For the record, I found the field reset people and referees wearing backpacks to look unprofessional too. It wasn't just purses but that seemed to be inline with the whole lack of pockets discussion. When I did field reset, we were specifically told to not have anything extraneous with us. I am signed up to referee at an upcoming off season event and my plan is to eliminate any possible distraction on my person that I can.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

There is nothing wrong with wearing cargo pants/shorts at any age (college or otherwise). Honestly, who cares?

Everyone who cares at all about fashion/looking good.

There's nothing wrong with cargo pants/shorts if you're at a FRC event or you're in the military/police/EMS, etc... But anyone older than college age will definitely get judged for wearing cargo pants as a regular part of their wardrobe when you're just out and about.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Cory

Everyone who cares at all about fashion/looking good.

There's nothing wrong with cargo pants/shorts if you're at a FRC event or you're in the military/police/EMS, etc... But anyone older than college age will definitely get judged for wearing cargo pants as a regular part of their wardrobe when you're just out and about.

http://mashable.com/2014/11/17/mark-.../#FYwbmx8cWuqW

Irony! How many of you have seen Dean in dress pants?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nton-kamen.jpg

>>>Deam Kamen in the Oval Office with then President Bill Clinton wearing jeans.<<<

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Siri

Carabiners. It's actually a method I developed working overseas to deal with an endemic pickpocket problem, but I use it all the time now. There are a wide variety of wallets that come with or can be fitted with a key ring, and I just clip a carabiner through it and onto my belt loop. Wallet stills falls out of my pocket all the time, but it doesn't go anywhere. Works the same way separately or together for keys. In fact I do the same with my phone on the other side, using a phone case that has a lanyard. Makes the phone a bit (or a lot, depending on the case) bulkier, but it works--I've actually felt people pickpocket me in a crowd and give up when I still had hold of the lanyard. Never goes anywhere no matter how wimpy the pockets are. (Now about women's pants that don't even have belt loops...)

That's exactly what I did with my wallet and keys in college - I completely forgot about it when I was thinking about this last night. I still use a carabiner for my keys now, and occasionally with the wallet when I absolutely don't want to drag a purse around. I used one of the Vera Bradley ID cases as a wallet (easy when all you need to fit is a credit card, school ID, drivers license, and some cash) and clipped it to the locking carabiner I had my keys on, and it was great. Still not appropriate for business situations (IMO), but it works for everything else as long as my belt and pockets aren't otherwise occupied.