pic: MVRE-109, high-recision shafted encoder

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I think it is a massive stretch to argue that the federal tax ID number for Ebay.com somehow qualifies you as a vendor. Literally anyone can setup an Ebay account.

You're essentially redefining these rules to do what you want, when you at this point clearly don't meet the intent of them. Saying 10 parts in stock is a "normal" amount?

This looks like great work and all that, but I don't think you can consider yourself an FRC legal vendor because you have an Ebay account and made a dozen of something. This seems like the exact situation the rule was written for.

The intent of the rule is to ensure that any team that wants to buy something can do so, and from a legitimate vendor. Ebay works through Paypal, offers a return service, and has various guarantees and restrictions on what people can sell. Many businesses, especially eastern Asian ones, sell almost exclusively on Ebay, Ali Express, and Alibaba. As a legitimate question (because I'm in the dark about this), what wouldn't qualify Ebay?
I know that teams buy and sell on Ebay and Aliexpress often, so if it is illegal as you say a lot of teams have unintentionally broken rules in the past. In particular, MVRT actually sold around 150 breakout boards for the Talon SRX back in 2015 through a mentor. 115 also used those for 2015 and 2016, and will probably continue using them for 2017 and onwards. Oddly enough, nobody brought up anything about Ebay not being a legitimate seller window back then, maybe because it was a team selling them rather than just an alumni.

I wish that keeping 10 in stock was very low, although I'm flattered that you think that I sell more than just a few of anything. In all seriousness, I think you're way overestimating how many people are interested in custom electronics. Even my cheapo PWM generator only sold about six (6) units, and that was my most useful device.
The bottom line is that very, very few teams have a marked interest in custom encoders, even (especially?) ones as cheap as this. Although it's true that I'm selling next to nothing, nothing is stopping you from buying one right now and letting me expand my stock for the season. My goal is to sell enough to start giving these away for free at competitions, and for every ~4 of these I can sell that's 1 more freebie that I can give away. If you don't think that I sell enough right now, please buy one so I can expand my stock to something that you think is normal. Don't just complain about the problem, do something about it.

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

I would also wonder about any certifications or testing that would need to be done due to it being an electrical device. I know when we were working on custom slip rings, we thought one part of being able to sell them as a vendor, we were worried we had to have them tested and rated, UL, etc.

If FIRST is willing to count an account on ebay then count be as surprised. I never got the impression that counted.

I will say I do not understand why FIRST feels it necessary to include section B. Not sure how that helps either party, the supplier or consumer both.

I loved your slip ring project, it was very well executed.
As far as testing and electrical stuff goes, this is nowhere near the power of a custom slip ring. I know that teams use custom breakouts all the time; in terms of power or usage, this isn't much different. It just has a fancy plastic case and a couple bearings. It poses as much risk as a bad crimp to your robot.
I'm not too clear on B either. Perhaps it's to prevent fake "teams" registered by vendors from selling en masse at competitions?


As a side note, I do want to open up a storefront for these kinds of things at some point. I'm thinking of selling MVRE-109s, hex bore encoders, and cheap PWM generators among a few other things. Does anybody know of a good platform that I could use to set up a website and process payments through Paypal with?

Originally Posted by Oblarg

If it does, the policy is sort of meaningless, methinks.

Honestly, if you're only going to have a stock of 10 or so, I have a hard time buying that as meeting the requirements of the policy, at least in any way that's consistent with the policy's intent. If an off-the-shelf resource is available to one team, it ought to be available to every team - a stock that limited really isn't, in practice, available to every team.

Else, what's preventing any team that wants to pre-machine parts from spinning off a handful of spares, opening an ebay account, and calling it a COTS product?

See above. If I sell 10 of these, I'm breaking a record for "profit made" and I might even be able to recoup my development investment. :| Right now, they are definitely available to every team that wants them, and that number is very low. I believe I have 6 or 8 people right now that have expressed an interest in purchasing a couple.