The Secret Second

[jijiglobe]

Team 694 has, for many years now, has had a secret trick that we used to get an extra second in our matches, but it seems to have been conspicuously removed and I haven't seen any discussion of it. The trick that we used is pretty simple: step forward as soon as the teleop buzzer goes off.

Most of you are probably familiar with the sounds that go off after autonomous ends (a buzzer, and then three bell rings). Almost every drive team I've seen has consistently waited until the end of the three bell rings to step forward, when they were actually to allowed to step forward at the end of autonomous (when the buzzer goes off). This adds probably less than a second to teleop, which is why we didn't bother going around telling everyone about it, instead opting to keep it a team secret.

We weren't the only team using this trick, I've noticed a lot of top tier teams using this trick, as well as teams that have been on eliminations alliances with top tier teams. I figured it was one of those little details that teams use, and didn't think it would ever change, but in 2016 it did.

I noticed almost immediately going the 2016 competition season, that even though I would step forward as soon as possible, the robot would refuse to move until the end of the "ding ding ding" sound. This is, of course, not a big deal, and honestly is the way things should have always worked, but after being used to being the first robot on the field to move most matches, it felt like being robbed of a second.

Anyway, RIP Secret Second. You will be missed T_T. Anyone else notice this change?

[Lil' Lavery]

You can step forward as soon as the autonomous clock hits 0. You don't have to wait for any audible cue.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You can step forward as soon as the autonomous clock hits 0. You don't have to wait for any audible cue.

And this is important, because not only does (or should) the clock happen first, a failure of the audible cues does not historically constitute a field fault. You lose some time waiting for a sound anyway, but I've seen people lose far more than a second waiting for a belated audible even though the clock is seconds ahead. (Historically, it's also been technically possible to get a foul for responding a sound that happens early while the auton clock is still running, though I've never seen this happen--and I'm not sure I'd foul it if it's reasonable.)

Waiting for any audible is generally a poor move in FRC. As a coach, my eye is on the clock and my hands on my drivers' shoulders in the last few seconds auton. I physically cue them forward. They usually don't need it as they're also trained to eye the clock, but if something weird is going on in auto they may still be watching the robots. We'll also have just discussed the first few seconds of teleop by then, which saves even more time. It's the only part of the match where you basically have a freeze frame you can stop and talk about.

[dirtbikerxz]

I've been doing something of the same sort since last year. As soon as I hear the end of the autonomous period, I immediately step forward and start squeezing the right trigger on my controller (the go forward button), so as soon as the bot is activated, I'm already moving. Looking back on match replays, more often than once I have seen almost a second+ delay between us moving and our alliance partners moving.

[Golfer4646]

I also noticed that it seemed that the robots were slow to enable for tele-op.

I believe that this was to allow for boulders to be properly scored as auto (10 points for a high goal, 5 points for a low goal) vs tele-op scores (5 points for a high goal, 2 points for a low goal). This delay I believe was added to allow the automatic sensor controlled system to properly distinguish between late auto scores and early tele-op scores.

Originally Posted by Siri

And this is important, because not only does (or should) the clock happen first, a failure of the audible cues does not historically constitute a field fault.

This happened in one match where as driver, the height of the portcullis (or possibly drawbridge) perfectly blocked my (driver's) view of the clock. (As driver I always depended on watching the clock on the middle of the opposite drivers station for when to "step forward and take the controls".) Also in this match, the sounds system did not work, such that I did not realize when auto ended/tele-op started, and such, the opposing alliance had a 4-ish second head start!

[Jaci]

The reason for the delay is the state transition the robots go through.

Robots don't go from auto straight to teleop, instead, they go from auto -> disabled, then a delay (~1 second), then from disabled -> teleop.

There are a few reasons I can think of for this delay:
1) Allow robots to finish code execution in the disabledInit() method, i.e. resetting states or variables or whatever.

2) Allow field elements (e.g. the scoring counters) to count any game elements still inside the field element (i.e. balls rolling through)

3) Stop robots from browning out or falling over. Disabled mode stops all actuators on the robot (i.e. motors). If a driver steps forward immediately and goes full throttle in the reverse direction to the robot's current movement, you could easily be the victim of inertia and cause a brownout. (see: robots that keep moving after they're disabled)

4) Even the playing field for everyone stepping up to the driver station. Some teams like to play more cautious than others, that is, stepping forward when the buzzer starts rather when the counter reaches zero. I'm one of these people, since I don't want to get card'd by a ref that wasn't watching the clock.

5) To give the buzzer more authority / warning. Think about it, waiting until the end of the buzzer to start moving sounds like a pretty good thing.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Jaci

The reason for the delay is the state transition the robots go through.

Robots don't go from auto straight to teleop, instead, they go from auto -> disabled, then a delay (~1 second), then from disabled -> teleop.

There are a few reasons I can think of for this delay:
1) Allow robots to finish code execution in the disabledInit() method, i.e. resetting states or variables or whatever.

2) Allow field elements (e.g. the scoring counters) to count any game elements still inside the field element (i.e. balls rolling through)

3) Stop robots from browning out or falling over. Disabled mode stops all actuators on the robot (i.e. motors). If a driver steps forward immediately and goes full throttle in the reverse direction to the robot's current movement, you could easily be the victim of inertia and cause a brownout. (see: robots that keep moving after they're disabled)

4) Even the playing field for everyone stepping up to the driver station. Some teams like to play more cautious than others, that is, stepping forward when the buzzer starts rather when the counter reaches zero. I'm one of these people, since I don't want to get card'd by a ref that wasn't watching the clock.

5) To give the buzzer more authority / warning. Think about it, waiting until the end of the buzzer to start moving sounds like a pretty good thing.

You are correct, but to be more specific, the robot goes from Autonomous Enabled to Autonomous Disabled to Teleop Disabled to Teleop Enabled.

This year there was a 1.5 second (IIRC) delay between the end of autonomous and the beginning of teleop.

[messer5740]

When I hear the buzzer I immediately step forward and start pushing down on the joystick in the direction I want to go. The extra second may be gone, but I still get about that time to think about what I am doing before the match starts.

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

You are correct, but to be more specific, the robot goes from Autonomous Enabled to Autonomous Disabled to Teleop Disabled to Teleop Enabled.

That's what is outlined by the FMS whitepaper, however, (if I recall correctly) WPILib does not show the disabled->disabled transition to the user robot program, so I chose to discount it. As far as robot code is concerned, disabled is its own state, along with test, teleop and auton.

[Chris is me]

This isn't a "secret trick" - this is what every competitive team does. There's nothing "secret" about an extremely loud buzzer sound.

Really, the "secret trick" is that the 0 second mark appears before the buzzer sounds. You should have your hands on the controls before the robot is teleop enabled. The drive coach should be staring at that clock, counting down the last five seconds, with some audible cue the moment a zero appears.

The reason there was a delay to enabling this year, was because extra time was added between autonomous and teleop to allow balls to fall through the goal sensors. You will notice this delay in shooting games more than games scored through other methods.

[GaryVoshol]

Who remembers when delays were built in, so autonomous scoring could be manually completed? Or a tube removed from the rack?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Who remembers when delays were built in, so autonomous scoring could be manually completed? Or a tube removed from the rack?

Back then, in years like 2006 and 2007, I was under the impression that you couldn't grab the controls until teleop started, rather than when autonomous ended. I remember watching a video of Einstein 2006, with all the drivers waiting to see who won autonomous ready to grab their controls. I could be way off on this because I'm only going off of match videos and not my own experiences....

I think the "cross the line as soon as auton is over" thing started by 2009 - in 2009, there was no delay, because human players could keep scoring all they wanted, and a delay would just give human players free points. Ever since it has definitely been "jump at 0 seconds", not "jump when teleop starts".

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Back then, in years like 2006 and 2007, I was under the impression that you couldn't grab the controls until teleop started, rather than when autonomous ended. I remember watching a video of Einstein 2006, with all the drivers waiting to see who won autonomous ready to grab their controls. I could be way off on this because I'm only going off of match videos and not my own experiences....

2006 is a bad year to gauge the delay because the stepping forward was after the field crew tallied up the scores to determine who won autonomous.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Who remembers when delays were built in, so autonomous scoring could be manually completed? Or a tube removed from the rack?

I suspect that teams that refer to you as "Evil* Gary the Tube Remover and Dream Crusher" might remember those delays.

Don't forget that it was also helpful in utilizing the Pokey-Pokey Stick in 2012**

*Not really evil.
**Not really called the Pokey Pokey Stick, but that is what everyone I knew called it unless that one field manager and/or head ref were around in which they insisted it be called the proper term.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Back then, in years like 2006 and 2007, I was under the impression that you couldn't grab the controls until teleop started, rather than when autonomous ended. I remember watching a video of Einstein 2006, with all the drivers waiting to see who won autonomous ready to grab their controls. I could be way off on this because I'm only going off of match videos and not my own experiences....

I think the "cross the line as soon as auton is over" thing started by 2009 - in 2009, there was no delay, because human players could keep scoring all they wanted, and a delay would just give human players free points. Ever since it has definitely been "jump at 0 seconds", not "jump when teleop starts".

"Clock reads 0" was in effect when I was driving in 2007. I dug up the manual to check my memory, and 2005-2007 at least have the verbiage:

<2005 and 2006 G35> No team member may pass the STARTING LINE in the ALLIANCE ZONE until the conclusion of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD (when the field timer displays zero seconds).
<2007 G01> The AUTONOMOUS PERIOD ends when the field timer displays zero seconds left in the period. and <2007 G45> No TEAM member may pass the PLAYER'S LINE in the ALLIANCE ZONE until the conclusion of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD.

You're right that the urge to jump on time wasn't so important in because of the long waits, though. I don't really recall how common it was before the necessity of 2009. Generally the importance and exact setup changes a lot while the rule itself stays put. Which means seriously, folks, train your teams to it. There's zero reason to wait for any sound if the clock is visible. Get some drive team eyes on it. Sometimes it gets you a lot, sometimes less, but the trends to 'live sport' and real-time scoring don't seem to be going anywhere.