[FRC Blog] FIRST Robotics Competition Registration Update

[dodar]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The California should still get priority, especially if they can't get into their first choice event.

So you want Regionals to be region locked like districts?

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by dodar

You didnt even read my post. I told you what I thought would happen if that was the Cali's 1st choice.

My point is: what if their first choice event is full before they get in? Should a team from across the country be able to bump them out of their second choice event as well?

Originally Posted by dodar

So you want Regionals to be region locked like districts?

Only until teams from those regions are able to get into a local regional.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

My point is: what if their first choice event is full before they get in? Should a team from across the country be able to bump them out of their second choice event as well?

If a team has #1 listed and its open they should get it filled. If an event has 61 applicants and 60 spots, the 60 closest should get to go. #2s shouldnt even be considered till all #1s are taken care of.

[Lil' Lavery]

I don't think anyone is proposing to get rid of the reserve capacity for regionals. Giving the RDs some flexibility and discretion regarding who gets into their event helps ensure that late registering, low budget, and/or local teams are able to find events they can play at.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by dodar

If a team has #1 listed and its open they should get it filled. If an event has 61 applicants and 60 spots, the 60 closest should get to go. #2s shouldnt even be considered till all #1s are taken care of.

The scenario I'm trying to avoid is:

Team A is 50 miles from Regional A and the next closest Regional is 300+ miles away and poses significant issues for Team A to travel to. Team B is 500 miles from Regional B, but really wants to attend. Team B "wins" the lottery, registers for Regional A and prevents Team A from attending Regional A and likely from participating in the FRC program at all.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

That's easily solvable by determining which event is a team's "local" regional ahead of time. The simplest way would be to determine which event is closest to each team and call that local. If, at that point, you have more teams than spots for that event, spots could be assigned randomly for every team that hadn't opted to try for a different event instead. The unlucky teams would then have to go to their second choice.

We moved to this system in PNW District last year. In the first round of signups a team could wither "opt out" of their local event or register for their local "home" event. Opt out would mean that you wait until the 2nd round and you get 2 choices when it opens up. (Again this is District only)

Due to the wonky way home events were chosen (by FIRST), the event we were listed as "home" for us was actually further away from us than the one we wanted to compete at. We opted out and then signed up for the closer event the 2nd registration. (FIRST chose home events based on zip codes or something and not by actual distance.... they would not change it when we requested it before registration)

It worked out for us... it simply gives a team the best chance at the district event that is closest to them. They don't have to take it. In this way, a team is never frozen out of the local district event.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by dodar

That is only contingent on that California event being the 1st choice for both teams.

If the Cali team wants it as their #2 but the Florida has it as #1, Florida wins.
If the Cali team wants it as their #2 and so does the Florida team, first come/first serve.
If the Cali team has it as #1 and Florida has it as #1, Cali wins by "home event".
If the Cali team has it #1 and Florida has it as #2, see above.

I think determining advantage from a team's preference order is more difficult than that. For example, I know plenty of teams here in the Twin Cities that could put down North Star and 10,000 Lakes as their first two choices, and not have the funding to travel anywhere else. Lets say that a bunch of teams put those two down in the same order, so that one of them fills up first. Should the team's that didn't make it into that one get locked out of the other because a bunch of teams from Texas had it as their first choice?

This is by no means an easy system to create.

Perhaps the best way would be to assign each team to a "home regional" before registration starts, and then have "first event registration" really be a request for changing, rather than an open sign up. So If my team is in Florida and gets assigned to a local regional, but I'd rather go out to California, I can put in a request to change, and if there's room in the event (either open capacity, or capacity created by other teams changing events) then the registration switches. If room doesn't open up, then my team stays in the local event. This could be extended to include multiple change requests (I want regional A, but if I can't get that, then I want regional B, if I can't get either then C, and finally stay where I am).

Such a system would be aimed at keeping costs low for every team, while providing the opportunity for personal preference as well. But cost comes before preference.

[nuclearnerd]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

While first is changing the system (which is something I do support) next year, there really is nothing inherently wrong with a first come, first served system, ...

There's plenty inherently wrong with a first come, first served system, even outside the bot issue! Having the free time and connectivity is a privilege not every team enjoys. It's no more fair to reward those teams that can click first at 12 Eastern time, than it would be to sell event slots at auction.

Thankfully FIRST appears to be moving to the only fair system I can think of: random assignments starting from a priority list. Something like how it is done for FIRST Choice by AndyMark and FTC leagues.

[SenorZ]

As a mentor for a team in the Los Angeles area, it is frustrating trying to register for my "home" regional that fills up in seconds. Especially when you see after that teams from out of state with low-fill-rate regionals registered there as a first event.

Just a gripe. I've never failed to get into my first choice event.

As for the bots thing, the registration process is written with the intent of a lead contact doing the work, not a program.

Read the instructions.

Says "Make sure you refresh your page at Noon Eastern on Thursday, September 22, 2016 in order for the Events to become available to your Team!"

Not "program a bot to do these steps for you hundreds of times per second."

[maxnz]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I think determining advantage from a team's preference order is more difficult than that. For example, I know plenty of teams here in the Twin Cities that could put down North Star and 10,000 Lakes as their first two choices, and not have the funding to travel anywhere else. Lets say that a bunch of teams put those two down in the same order, so that one of them fills up first. Should the team's that didn't make it into that one get locked out of the other because a bunch of teams from Texas had it as their first choice?

This is by no means an easy system to create.

Perhaps the best way would be to assign each team to a "home regional" before registration starts, and then have "first event registration" really be a request for changing, rather than an open sign up. So If my team is in Florida and gets assigned to a local regional, but I'd rather go out to California, I can put in a request to change, and if there's room in the event (either open capacity, or capacity created by other teams changing events) then the registration switches. If room doesn't open up, then my team stays in the local event. This could be extended to include multiple change requests (I want regional A, but if I can't get that, then I want regional B, if I can't get either then C, and finally stay where I am).

Such a system would be aimed at keeping costs low for every team, while providing the opportunity for personal preference as well. But cost comes before preference.

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

We moved to this system in PNW District last year. In the first round of signups a team could wither "opt out" of their local event or register for their local "home" event. Opt out would mean that you wait until the 2nd round and you get 2 choices when it opens up. (Again this is District only)

Due to the wonky way home events were chosen (by FIRST), the event we were listed as "home" for us was actually further away from us than the one we wanted to compete at. We opted out and then signed up for the closer event the 2nd registration. (FIRST chose home events based on zip codes or something and not by actual distance.... they would not change it when we requested it before registration)

It worked out for us... it simply gives a team the best chance at the district event that is closest to them. They don't have to take it. In this way, a team is never frozen out of the local district event.

Whatever way we would end up doing this, it seems that we all agree that it will be extremely complicated.

I personally think that the 1st round-opt out of home event/2nd round-register elsewhere system sounds the best.

[Jessica Boucher]

There is a chance the restart solved the issue.

Not to break up the discussion, but I kindof love that "cycling the power" may have fixed this whole thing.

[bdaroz]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

Not to break up the discussion, but I kindof love that "cycling the power" may have fixed this whole thing.

I saw that too and immediately thought of:

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

Not to break up the discussion, but I kindof love that "cycling the power" may have fixed this whole thing.

Good excuse to bust out my database expert emoticon:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

We moved to this system in PNW District last year. In the first round of signups a team could wither "opt out" of their local event or register for their local "home" event. Opt out would mean that you wait until the 2nd round and you get 2 choices when it opens up. (Again this is District only)

Due to the wonky way home events were chosen (by FIRST), the event we were listed as "home" for us was actually further away from us than the one we wanted to compete at. We opted out and then signed up for the closer event the 2nd registration. (FIRST chose home events based on zip codes or something and not by actual distance.... they would not change it when we requested it before registration)

It worked out for us... it simply gives a team the best chance at the district event that is closest to them. They don't have to take it. In this way, a team is never frozen out of the local district event.

We've also found the way things work to be curious from time to time. For example, before the home event system we asked if we could be guaranteed entry to the event that we host. The answer was not "no", it was "no because our IT department wouldn't be able to do that". That's a stupid response because they could always just adjust the number of spots held back with no special coding involved. A flat "no" would at least be honest.

Another curious thing is that the Alaskan team's home event is Wilsonville. While we'd love to see them in Wilsonville, it's about as far away from them as you can get without leaving the district. And I've heard a rumor that they've already made arrangements to stay in Seattle for a couple of weeks to compete, so if they choose to opt out it should not be a surprise to anyone.

[bobbysq]

Something interesting to note, 3 teams have somehow been signed up for events already.

https://www.thebluealliance.com/team/6319
https://www.thebluealliance.com/team/6320
https://www.thebluealliance.com/team/6321

I assume these are just for testing, but if you look on the firstinspires team list, a few rookie team numbers have been handed out as well.