Volunter Verification

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

I hate to be cynical about it, but background checks do more to protect the host organization than the participants.

Background checks only filters those that already been caught. But. It would stupid to have volunteers on the various offender registries because you didn't bother to look. 😃

[Billfred]

Another thing the credit report aspect will pull: past addresses reported to credit bureaus. Going deep in every jurisdiction is less practical (for now), but it only makes sense to go deep on known past addresses.

[IndySam]

I understand your concern but I passed my verification and didn't get a credit report hit so they didn't check that (unless they have a way to do it without a credit protection company detecting it.)

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

I don't like this either.

However, my love for FIRST trumps my misgivings.

Lawyers.

Go figure.

I spent 20 years off and on for FIRST.
One does not donate over $100k to directly or indirectly to something like this if they do not care.

However if FIRST has my finance data the controls around it are required and those include reasonable disclosure.

This issue is not the background check, that is at best a red herring (oh the safety....yeah sure), the issue is I see no evidence...at all...FIRST is set up to collect or store a credit report that may include account numbers, my SSN and sufficient information to commit identity theft even if the ID protection is through a credit rating company like Equifax.

Originally Posted by IndySam

I understand your concern but I passed my verification and didn't get a credit report hit so they didn't check that (unless they have a way to do it without a credit protection company detecting it.)

In fact it can be done. Two of my previous companies were able to hit my credit report without either ID protection service noticing. I know because I audited both systems.

Even a straight block of credit report requests is not exactly what you would think for Equifax or Experian.

In the end, my concern is not that FIRST has my data...it is that FIRST tells us how they use it and provides security and disclosure as is standard practice. If FIRST were a financial institution this would already have been immediately required.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Wow you really can't fault FIRST for being unable to detect serial killers... Some are totally normal, some are publicly crazy, some have delusions of grandeur, etc...

I can fault anyone if they use the 'past a background check' as a cover for not being otherwise vigilant. Now being vigilant is not perfect either, but it is better then hoping those people you pay with disclaimers all over the place get it right. Cause actual teachers have managed to get all the way through the teacher hiring process repleat with checks and still do things they should not.

Given the length of my involvement in FIRST I can see how volunteers keep coming back. So I also see no disclosure of how they escalate if whoever gets this information has questions. For example, you are a 3 year mentor and FIRST pulled 2 clean reports then pulls that next one and sees a concern for over a year ago. Now what? You already had a volunteer and who knows what went on.

Originally Posted by Billfred

Another thing the credit report aspect will pull: past addresses reported to credit bureaus. Going deep in every jurisdiction is less practical (for now), but it only makes sense to go deep on known past addresses.

Until last week, my credit report indicated I had an apartment in the Woolworth Building in NYC. The cost of such an apartment would be really huge. Yes I worked at one point in the Woolworth building but I never, ever, used it as a living address. Someone got cute and decided I lived there.

I have lived in the same home for 35 years. They have 2 different addresses and never listen that it is the exact same single family home. The number changed because it was impossible to find the house by the original number, for that matter any house on the road had the same issue. All fun till you need an ambulance and they can not find you.

So no, that feature is pretty useless for this as well.

[Mr V]

So I just went into my VV account and looked at my status. They have a link on how to read your report on the My Profile Tab.


In the middle of the page they show

Level 2: Advanced Criminal History Record Locator Search
Status Icon Government Watch List Search (OFAC)
Status Icon 50 State DOJ Registered Sex Offender Search
Status Icon WA-Washington Judicial Information System State Criminal Search
Includes the following locator products/search tools: - Nationwide Search


I see no indication that they do a credit report, though admittedly I did not provide my SSN. They do show that they used my first, middle and last name as well as my DOB and address in those searches.

[orangemoore]

Hey,
For those looking for an "official" source this document states you don't need to give an SSN for the process.

On page 12.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

Hey,
For those looking for an "official" source this document states you don't need to give an SSN for the process.

On page 12.

Does not say why one might not want to provide their SSN, but it does indicate the process could be delayed if one does not provide the SSN.

It should say what happens if you do provide the SSN.

Also notice the checkbox on the next page about the fair credit reporting act.

[Jpatterson1710]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

I hate to be cynical about it, but background checks do more to protect the host organization than the participants.

That may be true, but can you blame any organization for trying to protect themselves, regardless of what the organization is intended to do? All it takes is one issue to snowball into lawsuits and more. I know I surely would rather go through a background check, before i'd watch FIRST go through a potentially massive lawsuit.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I understand your concern but I passed my verification and didn't get a credit report hit so they didn't check that (unless they have a way to do it without a credit protection company detecting it.)

They may not pull them in some states

At least ten states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington) have passed laws prohibiting employers from pulling credit reports at all or restricting how and when employers may use them to make hiring or other job decisions.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

What does it matter that my credit score is higher than average to FIRST?
I pump usually $10k or more a year through things related to FIRST (I have already exceed that amount for 2016).
FIRST and things related to FIRST rarely provide me any tax write-off.
The largest tax write off I ever got was $700 and that is tiny compared to me giving and my taxes in my bracket.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Lucky for FIRST I do not view them as an employer but a charitable group to which I conduct contributions.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

The cost is a non-issue for me.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

I spent 20 years off and on for FIRST.
One does not donate over $100k to directly or indirectly to something like this if they do not care.

We get it. You're rich and give a lot of money to FIRST. But I have to ask... what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

FIRST didn't decide what information was needed to perform a background check. They hired a company to handle background checks for them, and set up to collect the info the company told them they need. As many others have said, if it's really that big of a deal for you, don't provide your SSN. If the data they're collecting without it is that big of a deal, don't volunteer. It really is that simple. I know FIRST has lost long-time volunteers when they started the background checks, that's just the reality we live in. deal with it.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

We get it. You're rich and give a lot of money to FIRST. But I have to ask... what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

FIRST didn't decide what information was needed to perform a background check. They hired a company to handle background checks for them, and set up to collect the info the company told them they need. As many others have said, if it's really that big of a deal for you, don't provide your SSN. If the data they're collecting without it is that big of a deal, don't volunteer. It really is that simple. I know FIRST has lost long-time volunteers when they started the background checks, that's just the reality we live in. deal with it.

Again...the fact I can pass the checks is the reason I am the perfect one to bring it up. Also 'rich' would be quite relative. My income is easily dwarfed. My credit report, and especially my credit score, could be achieved by a college student on a $20k income (just obey the established guidelines as much as possible).

The point is apparent. I routinely undergo background checks where refusing to provide an SSN would be an automatic failure. To suggest it is 'apparent' I should do something that in this one case might result in someone not doing something I can not predict based on the guidance provided by FIRST is illogical.

Volunteering should not be a game of gotcha. If FIRST gets my credit report I demand (this is not a joke to me) to know how it is being used, protected and what the ramifications are. My work secures the financial lives of millions. You wanna know what qualifies me to do that? I take my job freaking as seriously as a heart attack. Cause once you let it get sloppy you increase risk.

What is at stake here? If my credit report is breached I loose access to my credit, my bills go up do to a lower credit score, I loose control over my life. Even at my level that 1 ms breach can turn my life into hell in less than a week with consequences going on for years. At a lower level of financial income that breach may bring pain to your life for decades. Still sound like something you want to play with considering we can not keep spam off ChiefDelphi or the FIRSTInspires website running? In the end a breach does not benefit FIRST either because the reputational harm will ripple.

Seriously, DO NOT put your SSN into the volunteer website till FIRST discloses publicly: how they use your credit report, how they safe gaurd it and the process is described correctly.

[bdaroz]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

...
If FIRST gets my credit report I demand (this is not a joke to me) to know how it is being used, protected and what the ramifications are.
...

If I recall correctly when I did mine, FIRST doesn't get anything but the results clear or not (and if not I don't think they get that until you've had a chance to object - but not sure on that one).

I can't imagine it to be a smart decision for FIRST to use a vendor that sends full background checks and credit reports on every volunteer to FIRST. They just don't need it.

I recall reading recently an article (will edit if I can find it) about a person with a common name (John Smith or similar) getting denied a job because a background check failed. He submitted his full (w/ middle) name to the employer, but the employer didn't pass along the middle name. The company doing the check (I think it was one of the big 3 credit reporting companies as well) never matched enough data to verify the felon, who had a different middle name, wasn't this guy. The takeaway was that using SSN/credit report to help verify name and prior addresses / timeline helps to match records (or not match records) properly.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bdaroz

If I recall correctly when I did mine, FIRST doesn't get anything but the results clear or not (and if not I don't think they get that until you've had a chance to object - but not sure on that one).

I can't imagine it to be a smart decision for FIRST to use a vendor that sends full background checks and credit reports on every volunteer to FIRST. They just don't need it.

I recall reading recently an article (will edit if I can find it) about a person with a common name (John Smith or similar) getting denied a job because a background check failed. He submitted his full (w/ middle) name to the employer, but the employer didn't pass along the middle name. The company doing the check (I think it was one of the big 3 credit reporting companies as well) never matched enough data to verify the felon, who had a different middle name, wasn't this guy. The takeaway was that using SSN/credit report to help verify name and prior addresses / timeline helps to match records (or not match records) properly.

If FIRST does not get the credit report they can solve this by officially declaring it in public. I agree not providing the SSN is a less than ideal solution in the absence of information. If FIRST does not get my credit report I have no further issue with how they handle it.

[bdaroz]

Did you read the disclaimers when you went through the YPP process -- because that's where I read that.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bdaroz

Did you read the disclaimers when you went through the YPP process -- because that's where I read that.

Please point out where.
If I find it before you I will point it out myself (am traveling).

Trust me, I get no kicks out of having to chase this down.

So far all I have found is this in the YPP FAQ:
"6. The Disclosure to Obtain Consumer Reports for Volunteer Assignment Purposes includes
credit reports why is it necessary to share financial information?
The Federal Trade Commission defines Background Reports as a Consumer Report. The
Consumer Report referred to in the Federal Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) Disclosure is a Criminal
Record Report. FIRST does not obtain credit or financial reports."

The last sentence is in bold red typeface.
Is it stated somewhere else clearly?