Volunter Verification

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

What does it matter that my credit score is higher than average to FIRST?
I pump usually $10k or more a year through things related to FIRST (I have already exceed that amount for 2016).
FIRST and things related to FIRST rarely provide me any tax write-off.
The largest tax write off I ever got was $700 and that is tiny compared to me giving and my taxes in my bracket.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Lucky for FIRST I do not view them as an employer but a charitable group to which I conduct contributions.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

The cost is a non-issue for me.

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

I spent 20 years off and on for FIRST.
One does not donate over $100k to directly or indirectly to something like this if they do not care.

We get it. You're rich and give a lot of money to FIRST. But I have to ask... what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

FIRST didn't decide what information was needed to perform a background check. They hired a company to handle background checks for them, and set up to collect the info the company told them they need. As many others have said, if it's really that big of a deal for you, don't provide your SSN. If the data they're collecting without it is that big of a deal, don't volunteer. It really is that simple. I know FIRST has lost long-time volunteers when they started the background checks, that's just the reality we live in. deal with it.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

We get it. You're rich and give a lot of money to FIRST. But I have to ask... what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

FIRST didn't decide what information was needed to perform a background check. They hired a company to handle background checks for them, and set up to collect the info the company told them they need. As many others have said, if it's really that big of a deal for you, don't provide your SSN. If the data they're collecting without it is that big of a deal, don't volunteer. It really is that simple. I know FIRST has lost long-time volunteers when they started the background checks, that's just the reality we live in. deal with it.

Again...the fact I can pass the checks is the reason I am the perfect one to bring it up. Also 'rich' would be quite relative. My income is easily dwarfed. My credit report, and especially my credit score, could be achieved by a college student on a $20k income (just obey the established guidelines as much as possible).

The point is apparent. I routinely undergo background checks where refusing to provide an SSN would be an automatic failure. To suggest it is 'apparent' I should do something that in this one case might result in someone not doing something I can not predict based on the guidance provided by FIRST is illogical.

Volunteering should not be a game of gotcha. If FIRST gets my credit report I demand (this is not a joke to me) to know how it is being used, protected and what the ramifications are. My work secures the financial lives of millions. You wanna know what qualifies me to do that? I take my job freaking as seriously as a heart attack. Cause once you let it get sloppy you increase risk.

What is at stake here? If my credit report is breached I loose access to my credit, my bills go up do to a lower credit score, I loose control over my life. Even at my level that 1 ms breach can turn my life into hell in less than a week with consequences going on for years. At a lower level of financial income that breach may bring pain to your life for decades. Still sound like something you want to play with considering we can not keep spam off ChiefDelphi or the FIRSTInspires website running? In the end a breach does not benefit FIRST either because the reputational harm will ripple.

Seriously, DO NOT put your SSN into the volunteer website till FIRST discloses publicly: how they use your credit report, how they safe gaurd it and the process is described correctly.

[bdaroz]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

...
If FIRST gets my credit report I demand (this is not a joke to me) to know how it is being used, protected and what the ramifications are.
...

If I recall correctly when I did mine, FIRST doesn't get anything but the results clear or not (and if not I don't think they get that until you've had a chance to object - but not sure on that one).

I can't imagine it to be a smart decision for FIRST to use a vendor that sends full background checks and credit reports on every volunteer to FIRST. They just don't need it.

I recall reading recently an article (will edit if I can find it) about a person with a common name (John Smith or similar) getting denied a job because a background check failed. He submitted his full (w/ middle) name to the employer, but the employer didn't pass along the middle name. The company doing the check (I think it was one of the big 3 credit reporting companies as well) never matched enough data to verify the felon, who had a different middle name, wasn't this guy. The takeaway was that using SSN/credit report to help verify name and prior addresses / timeline helps to match records (or not match records) properly.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bdaroz

If I recall correctly when I did mine, FIRST doesn't get anything but the results clear or not (and if not I don't think they get that until you've had a chance to object - but not sure on that one).

I can't imagine it to be a smart decision for FIRST to use a vendor that sends full background checks and credit reports on every volunteer to FIRST. They just don't need it.

I recall reading recently an article (will edit if I can find it) about a person with a common name (John Smith or similar) getting denied a job because a background check failed. He submitted his full (w/ middle) name to the employer, but the employer didn't pass along the middle name. The company doing the check (I think it was one of the big 3 credit reporting companies as well) never matched enough data to verify the felon, who had a different middle name, wasn't this guy. The takeaway was that using SSN/credit report to help verify name and prior addresses / timeline helps to match records (or not match records) properly.

If FIRST does not get the credit report they can solve this by officially declaring it in public. I agree not providing the SSN is a less than ideal solution in the absence of information. If FIRST does not get my credit report I have no further issue with how they handle it.

[bdaroz]

Did you read the disclaimers when you went through the YPP process -- because that's where I read that.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bdaroz

Did you read the disclaimers when you went through the YPP process -- because that's where I read that.

Please point out where.
If I find it before you I will point it out myself (am traveling).

Trust me, I get no kicks out of having to chase this down.

So far all I have found is this in the YPP FAQ:
"6. The Disclosure to Obtain Consumer Reports for Volunteer Assignment Purposes includes
credit reports why is it necessary to share financial information?
The Federal Trade Commission defines Background Reports as a Consumer Report. The
Consumer Report referred to in the Federal Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) Disclosure is a Criminal
Record Report. FIRST does not obtain credit or financial reports."

The last sentence is in bold red typeface.
Is it stated somewhere else clearly?

[frcguy]

If your background, credit score, etc. are so perfect, why do you care so much about why they are doing this? Is it just for transparencies sake? You've made it clear you have nothing to hide, so why make a big deal out of it. They need to to a background check. Who cares? They're just trying to protect you, your fellow volunteers, student participants, and themselves. If you don't like it, you don't have to volunteer.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Jpatterson1710

That may be true, but can you blame any organization for trying to protect themselves, regardless of what the organization is intended to do? All it takes is one issue to snowball into lawsuits and more. I know I surely would rather go through a background check, before i'd watch FIRST go through a potentially massive lawsuit.

They will still go through the massive lawsuit...Having done some due diligence might prevent them from having to pay out, or might lessen the damages, but they're still getting sued either way.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by frcguy

If your background, credit score, etc. are so perfect, why do you care so much about why they are doing this? Is it just for transparencies sake? You've made it clear you have nothing to hide, so why make a big deal out of it. They need to to a background check. Who cares? They're just trying to protect you, your fellow volunteers, student participants, and themselves. If you don't like it, you don't have to volunteer.

There is the 'what do you have to hide?!' I knew could not be resisted. Even if it is, you have nothing to hide so what is the issue?

The answer is: I am a professional in a field directly relevant to global financial information and the security there of, so I need to steer clear of situations where I associate in activities that endanger that security or speak up when I percieve that risk. I chose to speak up.

On the contrary, and no slight intended, if you do not like my responsibility you can feel free not to comment or suggest I have something to hide or keep quiet. Even if I withdrew total support for FIRST tomorrow anything they did while they had support I could be associated with. The same goes for donors: if FIRST has a donor involved in criminal activity or FIRST is found liable of wrong doing.

For example: if I told you I worked for Wells Fargo as a teller and you watched the news recently: tell me you would not wonder (and no, while I have consulted for Wells Fargo, I had nothing to do with their recent account creation issue but you bet if I knew I would have confronted them).

There are risks I am prepared to take and those I am not. I obviously like FIRST but even if I like something does not mean I can play loose. If I play favorites like that it sets a very bad presedence.

To reiterate, I found one explanation from FIRST YPP in their FAQ declaring they are not seeking financial information. I would like to see if there are others elsewhere as has been suggested.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

The point is apparent. I routinely undergo background checks where refusing to provide an SSN would be an automatic failure. To suggest it is 'apparent' I should do something that in this one case might result in someone not doing something I can not predict based on the guidance provided by FIRST is illogical.

Seriously, DO NOT put your SSN into the volunteer website till FIRST discloses publicly: how they use your credit report, how they safe gaurd it and the process is described correctly.

FIRST provided written guidance that is explicit that the SSN is optional.

See the U.S. Screening Process Step By Step on this page, page 4 of the linked pdf.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

FIRST provided written guidance that is explicit that the SSN is optional.

See the U.S. Screening Process Step By Step on this page, page 4 of the linked pdf.

That's good to know because I know I've been going through some sort of thing with FIRST, gotten to the question where they've asked my SSN and decided I'm not doing this and just closed the page.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by SoftwareBug2.0

That's good to know because I know I've been going through some sort of thing with FIRST, gotten to the question where they've asked my SSN and decided I'm not doing this and just closed the page.

Which is why they created that guide that says SSN optional but most people probably aren't going to read a guide to do what they figure is going to be filling out their name DOB and address.

I put the whole mess on the company can't put, "I prefer not to give SSN", next to the check box instead of "no SSN". Most people will interpret the No SSN as saying you don't have one, not that you don't want to give it.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Which is why they created that guide that says SSN optional but most people probably aren't going to read a guide to do what they figure is going to be filling out their name DOB and address.

I put the whole mess on the company can't put, "I prefer not to give SSN", next to the check box instead of "no SSN". Most people will interpret the No SSN as saying you don't have one, not that you don't want to give it.

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

If they do, whether they wanted it or not, they are responsible for safe gaurding it.

Also instructions from a right hand column are not at all smart because English is read left to right. I filled in my application on my smartphone because FIRST sent me a request to register because they needed volunteers. A narrow screen means one is just more likely to not see that instruction on the right.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

If they do, whether they wanted it or not, they are responsible for safe gaurding it.

Also instructions from a right hand column are not at all smart because English is read left to right. I filled in my application on my smartphone because FIRST sent me a request to register because they needed volunteers. A narrow screen means one is just more likely to not see that instruction on the right.

Again I see nothing that indicates that at the level 2 background check that a credit report is pulled. It seems to me that they use the SSN to verify things that come up when they run a criminal report against the given name.

To me it seems as though the whole credit reporting disclosures at the end are their standard disclosure in case a higher level of background check is being done at the request of that particular organization.

I could imagine that in case where a volunteer could potentially have access to money that the requesting organization would want a credit report. For example I can see not wanting someone with a pile of unpaid bills soliciting cash donations.

I agree that FIRST should put that providing your SSN is optional in what ever communication they make requesting anyone to submit for a background check. No link to a guide, no fine print, no sidebar. Something along the lines of:

Thank you for your interest in being a FIRST volunteer. To increase the safety of all participants we require all volunteers to pass a background check. The process checks for X, Y & Z. It will ask for your SSN, but providing your SSN is optional. Not providing your SSN may delay the process, in some cases. FIRST (does/does not) request a credit report and (one/none) will be done even if you provide your SSN. Apply here: Link to application. Again thank your for your interest.

Fact is that many people will not want to provide a SSN to a web page and as we have seen noted here some will just close the application when they get to that question. Sharing the fact that the SSN is optional is likely to increase the participation rate. Clearly stating that the process is to check criminal history and whether the applicant is a registered sex offender should chase away those people who know for a fact that one of those things is likely to be found.

The way it is now there is no way to know whether the person decided not to complete the application because they were unwilling to give their SSN, because they knew that they wouldn't pass, or just because they didn't follow through. We don't want to weed out people who are concerned about putting their SSN in yet another data base that could potentially be hacked.

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

I did not read through FIRST's guide to filling out this system, and did in fact provide my SSN to Verified Volunteers after verifying with FIRST that they were in fact using this company for our background checks (because the initial email I got was sketchy at best).

Looking through my profile on their website, it does not appear they pulled my credit and I do not have any recent credit inquiries on my report.