Volunter Verification

[frcguy]

If your background, credit score, etc. are so perfect, why do you care so much about why they are doing this? Is it just for transparencies sake? You've made it clear you have nothing to hide, so why make a big deal out of it. They need to to a background check. Who cares? They're just trying to protect you, your fellow volunteers, student participants, and themselves. If you don't like it, you don't have to volunteer.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Jpatterson1710

That may be true, but can you blame any organization for trying to protect themselves, regardless of what the organization is intended to do? All it takes is one issue to snowball into lawsuits and more. I know I surely would rather go through a background check, before i'd watch FIRST go through a potentially massive lawsuit.

They will still go through the massive lawsuit...Having done some due diligence might prevent them from having to pay out, or might lessen the damages, but they're still getting sued either way.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by frcguy

If your background, credit score, etc. are so perfect, why do you care so much about why they are doing this? Is it just for transparencies sake? You've made it clear you have nothing to hide, so why make a big deal out of it. They need to to a background check. Who cares? They're just trying to protect you, your fellow volunteers, student participants, and themselves. If you don't like it, you don't have to volunteer.

There is the 'what do you have to hide?!' I knew could not be resisted. Even if it is, you have nothing to hide so what is the issue?

The answer is: I am a professional in a field directly relevant to global financial information and the security there of, so I need to steer clear of situations where I associate in activities that endanger that security or speak up when I percieve that risk. I chose to speak up.

On the contrary, and no slight intended, if you do not like my responsibility you can feel free not to comment or suggest I have something to hide or keep quiet. Even if I withdrew total support for FIRST tomorrow anything they did while they had support I could be associated with. The same goes for donors: if FIRST has a donor involved in criminal activity or FIRST is found liable of wrong doing.

For example: if I told you I worked for Wells Fargo as a teller and you watched the news recently: tell me you would not wonder (and no, while I have consulted for Wells Fargo, I had nothing to do with their recent account creation issue but you bet if I knew I would have confronted them).

There are risks I am prepared to take and those I am not. I obviously like FIRST but even if I like something does not mean I can play loose. If I play favorites like that it sets a very bad presedence.

To reiterate, I found one explanation from FIRST YPP in their FAQ declaring they are not seeking financial information. I would like to see if there are others elsewhere as has been suggested.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

The point is apparent. I routinely undergo background checks where refusing to provide an SSN would be an automatic failure. To suggest it is 'apparent' I should do something that in this one case might result in someone not doing something I can not predict based on the guidance provided by FIRST is illogical.

Seriously, DO NOT put your SSN into the volunteer website till FIRST discloses publicly: how they use your credit report, how they safe gaurd it and the process is described correctly.

FIRST provided written guidance that is explicit that the SSN is optional.

See the U.S. Screening Process Step By Step on this page, page 4 of the linked pdf.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

FIRST provided written guidance that is explicit that the SSN is optional.

See the U.S. Screening Process Step By Step on this page, page 4 of the linked pdf.

That's good to know because I know I've been going through some sort of thing with FIRST, gotten to the question where they've asked my SSN and decided I'm not doing this and just closed the page.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by SoftwareBug2.0

That's good to know because I know I've been going through some sort of thing with FIRST, gotten to the question where they've asked my SSN and decided I'm not doing this and just closed the page.

Which is why they created that guide that says SSN optional but most people probably aren't going to read a guide to do what they figure is going to be filling out their name DOB and address.

I put the whole mess on the company can't put, "I prefer not to give SSN", next to the check box instead of "no SSN". Most people will interpret the No SSN as saying you don't have one, not that you don't want to give it.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Which is why they created that guide that says SSN optional but most people probably aren't going to read a guide to do what they figure is going to be filling out their name DOB and address.

I put the whole mess on the company can't put, "I prefer not to give SSN", next to the check box instead of "no SSN". Most people will interpret the No SSN as saying you don't have one, not that you don't want to give it.

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

If they do, whether they wanted it or not, they are responsible for safe gaurding it.

Also instructions from a right hand column are not at all smart because English is read left to right. I filled in my application on my smartphone because FIRST sent me a request to register because they needed volunteers. A narrow screen means one is just more likely to not see that instruction on the right.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

If they do, whether they wanted it or not, they are responsible for safe gaurding it.

Also instructions from a right hand column are not at all smart because English is read left to right. I filled in my application on my smartphone because FIRST sent me a request to register because they needed volunteers. A narrow screen means one is just more likely to not see that instruction on the right.

Again I see nothing that indicates that at the level 2 background check that a credit report is pulled. It seems to me that they use the SSN to verify things that come up when they run a criminal report against the given name.

To me it seems as though the whole credit reporting disclosures at the end are their standard disclosure in case a higher level of background check is being done at the request of that particular organization.

I could imagine that in case where a volunteer could potentially have access to money that the requesting organization would want a credit report. For example I can see not wanting someone with a pile of unpaid bills soliciting cash donations.

I agree that FIRST should put that providing your SSN is optional in what ever communication they make requesting anyone to submit for a background check. No link to a guide, no fine print, no sidebar. Something along the lines of:

Thank you for your interest in being a FIRST volunteer. To increase the safety of all participants we require all volunteers to pass a background check. The process checks for X, Y & Z. It will ask for your SSN, but providing your SSN is optional. Not providing your SSN may delay the process, in some cases. FIRST (does/does not) request a credit report and (one/none) will be done even if you provide your SSN. Apply here: Link to application. Again thank your for your interest.

Fact is that many people will not want to provide a SSN to a web page and as we have seen noted here some will just close the application when they get to that question. Sharing the fact that the SSN is optional is likely to increase the participation rate. Clearly stating that the process is to check criminal history and whether the applicant is a registered sex offender should chase away those people who know for a fact that one of those things is likely to be found.

The way it is now there is no way to know whether the person decided not to complete the application because they were unwilling to give their SSN, because they knew that they wouldn't pass, or just because they didn't follow through. We don't want to weed out people who are concerned about putting their SSN in yet another data base that could potentially be hacked.

[Tem1514 Mentor]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

I hate to be cynical about it, but background checks do more to protect the host organization than the participants.

I feel the same way as you one this.

My guess would be that some legal eagle informed FIRST to limit their liability to have the checks performed.

Is it a good idea to protect our children, sure is but FIRST has not fully disclosed who sees what or where the information ends up to protect our rights.

Before you ask, as a Canadian I have gone through the 'vulnerable sector' screening that included having my finger prints sent to the RCMP to have my 'cleared' status confirmed.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Thank you for starting this thread and to the person who posted the link to the PDF where it says you don't have to give it. It is important to speak up about privacy and security. If nobody pushes back, anything can be done under the name of security.

I just filled out the form and chose "No SSN." I understand why they want a criminal background check. I'm not a criminal. I have no problem with that. I don't have a common name so they can easily do that without my SSN. They haven't made a case for why they need my SSN so I'm not providing it.

I have a "real" security clearance for my job. For that I had no problem with providing my social. I understand why they needed it. And why they ask a whole slew of other personal questions. But even the United States government (Office of Personal Management) had a data breach in that space.

I'm a co-volunteer coordinator for the NYC FRC regional. I plan to publicize the "No SSN" option to our volunteers.

As an aside, my state charges $65 for a criminal check on top of the $8 national one.

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

So now that it is apparent someone could screw this up, does FIRST get your credit report if you put in your SSN?

I did not read through FIRST's guide to filling out this system, and did in fact provide my SSN to Verified Volunteers after verifying with FIRST that they were in fact using this company for our background checks (because the initial email I got was sketchy at best).

Looking through my profile on their website, it does not appear they pulled my credit and I do not have any recent credit inquiries on my report.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Update: I didn't provide my SSN and was cleared within 48 hours. And I put up a blog post about not needing to provide a SSN to give the topic some SEO juice. Including a link to this thread.

[Trying to Help]

I'll chime in here too on this topic. As someone who has collected an impressive number of "we're very sorry that your personal information has been exposed, here have two years of free credit monitoring" forms, I'd really rather not give out anymore information. All of the organizations that were breached promised to be diligent and current on their protections. As the original poster could tell you, every organization at a certain level is being tested constantly. As someone said, you're going to be getting the testing done, it's just whether or not Brian Krebs writes the report.

It's not that I have anything to hide. And certainly other organizations have probably have more data on me. But for me, the question is "Does the benefit to the requesting organization (or myself via that org) outweigh the risks to me?" It's something that you should ask yourself every time you're asked for that data.

Trying to Help

Originally Posted by Jeanne Boyarsky

Thank you for starting this thread and to the person who posted the link to the PDF where it says you don't have to give it. It is important to speak up about privacy and security. If nobody pushes back, anything can be done under the name of security.

I just filled out the form and chose "No SSN." I understand why they want a criminal background check. I'm not a criminal. I have no problem with that. I don't have a common name so they can easily do that without my SSN. They haven't made a case for why they need my SSN so I'm not providing it.

I have a "real" security clearance for my job. For that I had no problem with providing my social. I understand why they needed it. And why they ask a whole slew of other personal questions. But even the United States government (Office of Personal Management) had a data breach in that space.

I'm a co-volunteer coordinator for the NYC FRC regional. I plan to publicize the "No SSN" option to our volunteers.

As an aside, my state charges $65 for a criminal check on top of the $8 national one.

[Conor Ryan]

I highly recommend watching the John Oliver bit on Credit Reporting

Short story, credit reports are being used for things that aren't credit related and this is bad. FIRST (or a volunteer background checking organization) has no reason to review a document that describes my propensity to pay under the guise of a background check. We have a fundamentally bad system here and constitutionally no protections to prohibit the practice.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

I highly recommend watching the John Oliver bit on Credit Reporting

Short story, credit reports are being used for things that aren't credit related and this is bad. FIRST (or a volunteer background checking organization) has no reason to review a document that describes my propensity to pay under the guise of a background check. We have a fundamentally bad system here and constitutionally no protections to prohibit the practice.

But FIRST, nor their background check company is not reviewing your credit report because they aren't pulling one. The reason that they want your SSN is to try and make sure you aren't confused with another Conor Ryan, or maybe Connor Ryan. Sure that other Conor Ryan's arrest may have been several states away but they have no way of knowing it wasn't you when you happened to be visiting there.

Note I'm not saying that you should give your SSN just that there is a good reason they would want it to confirm whether the data is actually about the person who they are checking and not someone with the same or similar name.