Discussion: Release Team Field Drawings Early

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by EricH

Here's a crazy idea.

Why not, prior to Kickoff, release a "Cut List"? Doesn't have to be final size, but I could see something like this:

...

Still doesn't solve the nuisance of "hey, who gave us bad team-build materials" but should get teams to that point faster.

BRILLIANT! Yes! This would be AWESOME!

It could be released in December, and would be WAY more entertaining than a game hint as people try to figure out the different ways that pieces could be assembled.

It would also require that FIRST invest a bit more time in the team drawings... which, from the sound of it, is part of the problem with them now.

Jason

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by EricH

Here's a REALLY GOOD idea.

@Frank

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by EricH

Here's a crazy idea.

I seem to remember a year that released the team version of the field materials list early.

[sanddrag]

Maybe FIRST could get a sponsorship from Ikea, and we all could get flat-packed field parts with pictoral assembly instructions. And then all the parts could have funny names.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

I seem to remember a year that released the team version of the field materials list early.

Early in my time with FIRST, I remember getting an early hardware list. They abandoned the concept probably ten years ago, on the grounds that teams couldn't make an informed decision about what to buy to play their game.

Personally, I'd be thrilled with a nice cut/shopping list.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by EricH

Here's a crazy idea.

Why not, prior to Kickoff, release a "Cut List"? Doesn't have to be final size, but I could see something like this:

Element 1 (<=1):

• 5" x 5" wood beam, 3' long, QTY 1
• 3/4" plywood, 3' long by 1.5' wide, QTY 1

Element 2 (<=1):

• 3/4" plywood, 3' long by 1.5' wide, QTY 1
• 3' long 1.5" x 1.5" wood beam, QTY 2

Element 3 (<=5):
(list of parts for defense base)

[remaining elements of field]

You get the idea. Doesn't have to be final size, or have any funny angles included, but should be, if cut, a "kit" that will allow teams to take an educated guess as to what they'll want to build, and the approximate size. For example, if I saw something saying "<=5", I'd take a guess and say "I think I need to build a couple of these, let me look at the list for that". And for stuff with a "common" piece, I'd probably cut a bunch of those pieces.

Then, when Kickoff comes out, all FIRST has to do is include one extra list with the Manual:
Element 1 = Rock Wall, pg X
Element 2 = Rough Terrain, pg Y
Element 3 = Defense Base, pg Z
[...]
Then everybody can get their pre-cut "kits" and assemble.

Still doesn't solve the nuisance of "hey, who gave us bad team-build materials" but should get teams to that point faster.

This is a great idea!

Even for teams like ours where we might not make all the elements, wood is cheap and can easily be used elsewhere.

Some items that might give away the field could be combined. The defenses could have been easily disguised by bundling them together so as to not give away the field. Other items like the goal cutouts we could have just received the overall size and then given the cut version at kickoff.

Please Frank consider this!

[Mark McLeod]

Found an early version of Eric's idea,

[marshall]

#TSIMFD

Would love an early released cut list for lumber or even just a timely cut list for lumber.

[BenDSterling]

Originally Posted by EricH

Here's a crazy idea.

Why not, prior to Kickoff, release a "Cut List"?

I LOVE this idea.

[Justin Montois]

I truly appreciate all of the responses in this thread.

While I still believe there are more benefits teams in releasing all of the Team Drawings early, with various methods of subterfuge to disguise the game perhaps, I think EricH has is a nice middle ground that can achieve what is necessary to help teams get a good start on their season.

I know that Frank reads CD and hopefully this thread may help implement these changes for this season.

I also really like what Jason Brett said, it would really serve as an awesome Game Hint as well.

[346CADmen]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

BRILLIANT! Yes! This would be AWESOME!

It could be released in December, and would be WAY more entertaining than a game hint as people try to figure out the different ways that pieces could be assembled.

It would also require that FIRST invest a bit more time in the team drawings... which, from the sound of it, is part of the problem with them now.

Jason

I'll second this idea. Would be a huge plus in many ways, including budgeting of both $ and time.

I would also speak to those holding kickoff events and the "not much of an advantage" thought. Not much of an advantage is knowing the game name.
Having field elements day of kickoff, that is an advantage. On our team, we have joked about Ri3D comparing it to Fi3D (field in 3 days).

Perhaps those that host might be inclined to allow teams attending to take some of those elements with them after kickoff? then some other teams would have "not much of an advantage". Just a thought.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by 346CADmen

Perhaps those that host might be inclined to allow teams attending to take some of those elements with them after kickoff? then some other teams would have "not much of an advantage". Just a thought.

Would said teams pay the host team for said field elements? Not trying to be greedy but the host team had to use their materials, and their man power to build them it seems unfair to give them away just for some arbitrary idea of fairness.

That being said my team has made field elements in the past for other teams we usually have two caveats though, one is that you purchase your own materials (usually just the lumber), and if you are able to have a student come to our shop to either assist in building it or be overseen by us in building it depending on the students skill set.

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I would like for the drawings to include a simple and easy-to-read bill of materials for lumber and whatnot, so I can just go to the lumber yard and buy it, without having to add it all up from eleventeen different drawing sheets.

This could be done today by any of the teams that build for a kickoff creating a BOM and cut list and posting it here at kickoff.

I'll try to be organized this year and do that.

[Ari423]

Originally Posted by rsisk

This could be done today by any of the teams that build for a kickoff creating a BOM and cut list and posting it here at kickoff.

I'll try to be organized this year and do that.

Someone said above somewhere that everyone who works on building the field before the season needs to sign a NDA that they won't tell what the field elements are before kickoff. Wouldn't publicizing the cut list without consent from FIRST be a breach of the NDA?

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by Ari423

Someone said above somewhere that everyone who works on building the field before the season needs to sign a NDA that they won't tell what the field elements are before kickoff. Wouldn't publicizing the cut list without consent from FIRST be a breach of the NDA?

Yeah, I suggested releasing at kickoff when the field drawings are public. Pretty sure I read in my NDA it only applies until the information is public.