Utilizing breaks between matches.

[SpaceBiz]

One of the complaints I get from non-first people and sometimes rookies when they watch events is the lack of things happening in between matches. There is normally just music playing, and an occasional FIRST parody or ad here and there, the game animation at some point, and that's it. The music selection was sooo much better this year (at least at CHS events), but it seems like there are more interesting things events could be doing during breaks.

I know some other threads have briefly touched on this, but I wanted to have a discussion about what kinds of things people want to see inbetween matches for the 2017 season and beyond. Some Ideas that have been previously mentioned include...

-Chairman's videos of more than just the team that wins.
-Reveal vids
-Other types of team produced media
-Interesting matches from current seasons or others.

I don't have a strong opinion about what should be played inbetween matches, but I think that by showing more team produced videos at events, teams will be more likely to produce their own media, increasing the quantity of good team produced media, and will in turn help FIRST "make it loud".

[Jay O'Donnell]

The match analysis desk that we've seen on Einstein, IRI and Chezy Champs is definitely the way to go.

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

The match analysis desk that we've seen on Einstein, IRI and Chezy Champs is definitely the way to go.

That's great, but there's only so many groups to choose from. Even if you combine FUN, F4, Gamesense and probably another podcast I'm missing, you still don't have nearly the amount of people for all of the events. I think the IRI stream was done really well, but compare that to the champs stream, I think you can see a big difference. The champs stream wasn't really on top of when match started and stopped, sometimes going into a match after it's already started and sometimes staying there for much longer than necessary. While I do think that this is the best option, I'm not sure it's feasible for every event. We might be able to get a "Stream Host" volunteer role for some events, but I sincerely doubt many will want that position.

[Caleb Sykes]

The problem with many intermission events is that they are of a fixed length, while the time between matches is variable. Mascot dances, videos, judge swag contests, etc... are all cool, but they either leave extra downtime before the next match starts, or hold up the next match until they are finished.

Doing more short videos might help, but I agree that having an analysis desk or live interviewer is the best, because they can deal with the variable intermissions better than other fillers.

[Lil' Lavery]

Not many high school football games have analysis desks to handle downtime between plays. While having something like that at every event would be ideal, I don't think it's a realistic expectation.

[ttnn58]

team 3075 made for the israel regional last year a "postcard" video for each team (each video was 1 minute~) and it contained some basic information, two student from the team talking a little about their over-all experience, and some team media, like robot reavel video or chairmens...
they played a video of one of teams on the big screen above the field before a match this team had. it was kinda nice, but they only played the in the very end of the regional....
this is all the videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1B8...O-L0Z7-ghVrqT-
*the videos are in hebrew

[SpaceBiz]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

The problem with many intermission events is that they are of a fixed length, while the time between matches is variable. Mascot dances, videos, judge swag contests, etc... are all cool, but they either leave extra downtime before the next match starts, or hold up the next match until they are finished.

Doing more short videos might help, but I agree that having an analysis desk or live interviewer is the best, because they can deal with the variable intermissions better than other fillers.

I think a short video and live interviewer combo could solve the variable intermissions problem at events where you can't do an analysis desk.

Analysis desks might be the ultimate solution, but I don't think they can be implemented on a large scale for 2017 regular season events. I would love to see them at district champs and maybe a few regionals though.

[MARS_James]

Sometimes I feel like I am getting old on this site. The very first regional I competed at was the 2007 Florida Regional there was 51 Teams, playing 8 matches, making for 68 matches total. Fast forward to the same event in 2016, 63 teams, playing 9 matches, for 95 matches total. For those who don't get why I am bringing this up, the events took place over the same course of time so there was 40% more matches, squeezed in. The down time between matches in old first events were crazy considering how simple the field reset is by today's standards.

But now to stop feeling old, I like the idea of segments where there is analysis in between matches and Florida is lucky enough that we have the Roboshow already established handling the Orlando Regional so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to cover both Florida events.

One thing that I have always said FIRST should do is have just a single elimination match between the two teams that were eliminated in the semifinals to crown a third place team, they don't need medals or even trophies (though they would be appreciated). It gives something going on during that required field break, it allows for wild cards to continue past the just the finalists, and it makes for a good feeling to get one more match at an event.

[Foster]

Add me to the list of people that would want to see Chairman's videos. If I never heard Cotton Eye Joe again, but instead got to watch 10-15 teams videos I'd be happy.

There are teams that work just as hard if not harder on their community events, I'd love to see them showcased

Awards Give Awards during the longer breaks. Duel did that this weekend. In that looooong lull after alliance selection, they gave away a number of awards. So there was always something to watch on the field while teams were setting up for eliminations.

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by Foster

Add me to the list of people that would want to see Chairman's videos. If I never heard Cotton Eye Joe again, but instead got to watch 10-15 teams videos I'd be happy.

There are teams that work just as hard if not harder on their community events, I'd love to see them showcased

Awards Give Awards during the longer breaks. Duel did that this weekend. In that looooong lull after alliance selection, they gave away a number of awards. So there was always something to watch on the field while teams were setting up for eliminations.

The problem with giving awards during breaks is a lot of teams work on their robot during the breaks. If everyone but the scouters are not there to accept the award, I feel like most of the team would feel left out. There's so many things that most of the team needs to do during an event, having them go back and forth from the stands to wherever they need to get things done at would be a pain.

[EricH]

I agree that there's a bit of a break between matches. But... there's ALWAYS activity.

For those that aren't aware, each event has a cycle time. That is the time it takes to run a match, ideally. A general target is in the 6-8 minute timeframe, unless it's a small event or a particularly rough field setup, when 10 minutes is more common, or a particularly fast field setup, when 5 minutes could be achieved (maybe).

For a 7-minute cycle time:
2:15 (or thereabouts) to run the match
0:15 to double-check scores and if there are issues that need discussion
Green Field (cue reset for the next match)
4:00 to reset the field and begin team introductions (the most variable part--this is also the "hey, why isn't my robot connecting" part--but this is where the "extra" time comes from in a longer schedule)
0:30 to finish team introductions, check for green field status (ready to play), and count 3-2-1-GO!

Oh, yeah, and about 30 seconds of that 4-minute block of time is score announcing, and exactly when it happens is variable based on any discussions that need to happen.

So, for all practical purposes, you're talking about filling 3 minutes of that cycle time with something else. While that isn't a bad idea, there are two primary restrictions on what you can do. The first is that being on the field itself is going to be a really bad idea (it's already crowded with 12 teams, 8-10 field reset, and a couple of refs). The second is that there's all that motion going on, with communications--that's a distraction, and all that. (And there's the time factor.)


There's a few options here, but I'd suspect that having some 1-minute analysis soundbites would be a cool idea. Maybe not video, but basically you get 2-3 people at the event who have some idea of what they're doing and have them do some commentary on stats, strategies, teams, stuff like that, with a 1-minute time limit. Some of it could be pre-done (even before the event, or on practice day) for the first set of matches, and then done over about an hour at a time for recording sessions.

The big kicker is the elims, with the mandatory 6-minute field timeout for teams in back-to-back matches. That's when you maybe slide some awards or Chairman's videos in.

[jreneew2]

I don't know much about how strict an official FIRST event is run, but do you need approval for something like this? I'm sure people would be willing to volunteer to play some sort of analyst role in between matches. The only problem is people saying they know the game in and out and specific teams when they actually don't.

What I'm trying to say is, if FIRST actively promoted the position, maybe more people would study the game and try to fill the position.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jreneew2

I don't know much about how strict an official FIRST event is run, but do you need approval for something like this? I'm sure people would be willing to volunteer to play some sort of analyst role in between matches. The only problem is people saying they know the game in and out and specific teams when they actually don't.

What I'm trying to say is, if FIRST actively promoted the position, maybe more people would study the game and try to fill the position.

I'm sure approval would be needed. (I've heard what happens if approval doesn't happen.)

But I would also suspect that the best move would be to do a pilot, with the existing groups at their "home" event areas. If it enhances the experience, then it's time to train others to do it--see also, offseason events--and roll it out as an option at all events (similar to early pit setup this last year--events could opt NOT to have it).

[AlexanderLuke]

Here is something relevant, but not really something easily possible to put on at official events:

Today while issues with one of the robots was getting fixed before Finals Match 2 at Capital City Classic, the event staff got two members of the audience to come on the field and attempt to throw a boulder into the high goal on the other side of the field.

Even the FTA crews and some volunteers chimed in on getting a shot up. Someone actually made the shot from the neutral zone, amidst the six robots that were already set up there.

EDIT: After they determined that the robot's problem could not be solved in time, one the the referees even started to juggle on the field as that robot was getting pulled off the field.

Creative solutions.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

The problem with giving awards during breaks is a lot of teams work on their robot during the breaks. If everyone but the scouters are not there to accept the award, I feel like most of the team would feel left out. There's so many things that most of the team needs to do during an event, having them go back and forth from the stands to wherever they need to get things done at would be a pain.

My experience is there is a pit crew wrenching on the robot. There is a lone, sometimes two, programmers being yelled at by the four person drive team and the pit crew. So lots of people left over to accept awards. Not thinking Chairman, but maybe Safety, controls, website, spirit, GP, build, design, etc.

Poll your team. "How upset would you be missing a design award while you are elbow deep in fixing the robot to win the next match."

Report back what they say

TV sports, dead air is deadly, lets fill it.