Utilizing breaks between matches.

[MARS_James]

Sometimes I feel like I am getting old on this site. The very first regional I competed at was the 2007 Florida Regional there was 51 Teams, playing 8 matches, making for 68 matches total. Fast forward to the same event in 2016, 63 teams, playing 9 matches, for 95 matches total. For those who don't get why I am bringing this up, the events took place over the same course of time so there was 40% more matches, squeezed in. The down time between matches in old first events were crazy considering how simple the field reset is by today's standards.

But now to stop feeling old, I like the idea of segments where there is analysis in between matches and Florida is lucky enough that we have the Roboshow already established handling the Orlando Regional so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to cover both Florida events.

One thing that I have always said FIRST should do is have just a single elimination match between the two teams that were eliminated in the semifinals to crown a third place team, they don't need medals or even trophies (though they would be appreciated). It gives something going on during that required field break, it allows for wild cards to continue past the just the finalists, and it makes for a good feeling to get one more match at an event.

[Foster]

Add me to the list of people that would want to see Chairman's videos. If I never heard Cotton Eye Joe again, but instead got to watch 10-15 teams videos I'd be happy.

There are teams that work just as hard if not harder on their community events, I'd love to see them showcased

Awards Give Awards during the longer breaks. Duel did that this weekend. In that looooong lull after alliance selection, they gave away a number of awards. So there was always something to watch on the field while teams were setting up for eliminations.

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by Foster

Add me to the list of people that would want to see Chairman's videos. If I never heard Cotton Eye Joe again, but instead got to watch 10-15 teams videos I'd be happy.

There are teams that work just as hard if not harder on their community events, I'd love to see them showcased

Awards Give Awards during the longer breaks. Duel did that this weekend. In that looooong lull after alliance selection, they gave away a number of awards. So there was always something to watch on the field while teams were setting up for eliminations.

The problem with giving awards during breaks is a lot of teams work on their robot during the breaks. If everyone but the scouters are not there to accept the award, I feel like most of the team would feel left out. There's so many things that most of the team needs to do during an event, having them go back and forth from the stands to wherever they need to get things done at would be a pain.

[EricH]

I agree that there's a bit of a break between matches. But... there's ALWAYS activity.

For those that aren't aware, each event has a cycle time. That is the time it takes to run a match, ideally. A general target is in the 6-8 minute timeframe, unless it's a small event or a particularly rough field setup, when 10 minutes is more common, or a particularly fast field setup, when 5 minutes could be achieved (maybe).

For a 7-minute cycle time:
2:15 (or thereabouts) to run the match
0:15 to double-check scores and if there are issues that need discussion
Green Field (cue reset for the next match)
4:00 to reset the field and begin team introductions (the most variable part--this is also the "hey, why isn't my robot connecting" part--but this is where the "extra" time comes from in a longer schedule)
0:30 to finish team introductions, check for green field status (ready to play), and count 3-2-1-GO!

Oh, yeah, and about 30 seconds of that 4-minute block of time is score announcing, and exactly when it happens is variable based on any discussions that need to happen.

So, for all practical purposes, you're talking about filling 3 minutes of that cycle time with something else. While that isn't a bad idea, there are two primary restrictions on what you can do. The first is that being on the field itself is going to be a really bad idea (it's already crowded with 12 teams, 8-10 field reset, and a couple of refs). The second is that there's all that motion going on, with communications--that's a distraction, and all that. (And there's the time factor.)


There's a few options here, but I'd suspect that having some 1-minute analysis soundbites would be a cool idea. Maybe not video, but basically you get 2-3 people at the event who have some idea of what they're doing and have them do some commentary on stats, strategies, teams, stuff like that, with a 1-minute time limit. Some of it could be pre-done (even before the event, or on practice day) for the first set of matches, and then done over about an hour at a time for recording sessions.

The big kicker is the elims, with the mandatory 6-minute field timeout for teams in back-to-back matches. That's when you maybe slide some awards or Chairman's videos in.

[jreneew2]

I don't know much about how strict an official FIRST event is run, but do you need approval for something like this? I'm sure people would be willing to volunteer to play some sort of analyst role in between matches. The only problem is people saying they know the game in and out and specific teams when they actually don't.

What I'm trying to say is, if FIRST actively promoted the position, maybe more people would study the game and try to fill the position.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jreneew2

I don't know much about how strict an official FIRST event is run, but do you need approval for something like this? I'm sure people would be willing to volunteer to play some sort of analyst role in between matches. The only problem is people saying they know the game in and out and specific teams when they actually don't.

What I'm trying to say is, if FIRST actively promoted the position, maybe more people would study the game and try to fill the position.

I'm sure approval would be needed. (I've heard what happens if approval doesn't happen.)

But I would also suspect that the best move would be to do a pilot, with the existing groups at their "home" event areas. If it enhances the experience, then it's time to train others to do it--see also, offseason events--and roll it out as an option at all events (similar to early pit setup this last year--events could opt NOT to have it).

[AlexanderLuke]

Here is something relevant, but not really something easily possible to put on at official events:

Today while issues with one of the robots was getting fixed before Finals Match 2 at Capital City Classic, the event staff got two members of the audience to come on the field and attempt to throw a boulder into the high goal on the other side of the field.

Even the FTA crews and some volunteers chimed in on getting a shot up. Someone actually made the shot from the neutral zone, amidst the six robots that were already set up there.

EDIT: After they determined that the robot's problem could not be solved in time, one the the referees even started to juggle on the field as that robot was getting pulled off the field.

Creative solutions.

[Jonny_Jee]

Originally Posted by AlexanderLuke

Here is something relevant, but not really something easily possible to put on at official events:

EDIT: After they determined that the robot's problem could not be solved in time, one the the referees even started to juggle on the field as that robot was getting pulled off the field.

Creative solutions.

Glad to hear people got a kick out of this. I've already started training for field delays at Sac regional 2017

[Bob Steele]

Something simple would be a video replay of the previous match.. That takes up most of the time between matches.... It would need a dedicated individual who could go back and make the replay.... technically it could be done but would require someone doing it. Of course it COULD NOT be used by the officials for scoring. If you watch sporting events... much of the deadtime shows highlights or different angles.

Many matches go by very quickly and many would be fun to watch again. Some not so much...

Old game videos from older games could also be played.... nostalgia

highlights of other regionals.... etc etc.

There is quite a bit out there if you look

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

The problem with giving awards during breaks is a lot of teams work on their robot during the breaks. If everyone but the scouters are not there to accept the award, I feel like most of the team would feel left out. There's so many things that most of the team needs to do during an event, having them go back and forth from the stands to wherever they need to get things done at would be a pain.

My experience is there is a pit crew wrenching on the robot. There is a lone, sometimes two, programmers being yelled at by the four person drive team and the pit crew. So lots of people left over to accept awards. Not thinking Chairman, but maybe Safety, controls, website, spirit, GP, build, design, etc.

Poll your team. "How upset would you be missing a design award while you are elbow deep in fixing the robot to win the next match."

Report back what they say

TV sports, dead air is deadly, lets fill it.

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by Foster

My experience is there is a pit crew wrenching on the robot. There is a lone, sometimes two, programmers being yelled at by the four person drive team and the pit crew. So lots of people left over to accept awards. Not thinking Chairman, but maybe Safety, controls, website, spirit, GP, build, design, etc.

Poll your team. "How upset would you be missing a design award while you are elbow deep in fixing the robot to win the next match."

Report back what they say

TV sports, dead air is deadly, lets fill it.

I would love to poll my team and tell you, but my guess is the results may be slightly skewed. We never even compete for awards, never the less have we gotten one. Check out TBA, never a single award. How I wish I could convince my team...

I think it'll depend on the team. In the spirit of GP and the general idea of FIRST involving everyone, I doubt this could become officially sanctioned.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

I think it'll depend on the team. In the spirit of GP and the general idea of FIRST involving everyone, I doubt this could become officially sanctioned.

Wanna bet? (Don't, you'll lose.)

Seems like back in the mid-late 2000s, FIRST did give awards between matches of elims, on Einstein. Now, they did tend to go over, but I think that was because the VIPs giving out the awards tended to give longer-than-planned speeches.

Now, that being said, for that particular setup, they had 2 reps per team. I think that can be brought to the regional level, IF someone wanted to go that route.

[C.Lesco]

I would absolutely love to see this. Especially having someone interviewing the drivers and such. Showing videos would be more rewarding to only the people who had time/resources to make the video whereas everyone's team could cheer when their drive team is on the bigscreen

[BMiller2559]

I agree, although expensive and difficult to coordinate some "Behind the Line" videos of the last match would be very entertaining and could even give the people in the stands a feel for the driver's view of the field and what that little robot looks like 50 feet away behind two rows of obstacles. Of course if it came with sound it might be problematic for some of the more intense "adult" drive coaches.

[CoachC]

Id like to see Team build and motivational videos. The general public (IMHO) would like to see highlight reels from past or existing events. Ive sat in the stands as a fan and as a coach and thats the feedback ive heard over the years.

Jim (Coach C)
Team 5247
Red Devil Robotics