Phone Policy

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by bkahl

Ive changed my mind.

We should all ask our students to sacrifice their phones in memory of these beautiful souls.

Sure and the world will get less connected tomorrow.
Just like that...
Except it won't.
It's Pandora's Box and once it is open it can't be shut.

I will say that everyone should watch and teach their kids how to use this technology properly. So that means find a path you like, but don't be surprised if blocking your students from the technology leaves them unprepared when they encounter it and they will.

I will also say it would be foolish not to point out that there are enormous opportunities for students to have a career in information security. Not all these jobs need to be like mine. The ultimate goal should be to better engineer the entire process such that there's enough people to pull shifts and to harden everything better (there's a vast amount of things my systems depend on that I don't control and form risks I must manage). I grew up building weapons to fight wars. So for me to fight an information war is right in line with where I started.

Also I seriously doubt those people would appreciate watching their sacrifice be used as you are suggesting.
We all manage risk, even those without phones operating machine tools.
You can't avoid all risk or you loose opportunities to benefit.
So unless you're prepared to ban power tools because people have died operating them...

[D_Price]

We have a policy throughout "Build Season" that all students entering the classroom turn off their phones. Not specifically give them over but just turn them off. Also, all the computers in our design lab are turned off unless the design team is in the room, eliminating the teen urge to play on the computer other than do robotics work or homework. It works well as everyone is attentive at meetings and the other students help out if someone is on their phone.

[bduddy]

This is one of the times that it strikes me how much has changed since I was in high school, less than 10 years ago. Back in my day (lol) we could, technically, access the Internet on our phones, but it really, really wasn't worth it. Oh how things have changed...


As for my opinion on the question: One thing that should be important to all FIRST times is lowering the barrier to entry in every way they can. The team members that aren't paying attention not only are the ones that can benefit the most from FIRST, they may be the students the teams can benefit from the most... if they're engaged with rather than being driven out.

[Jon Stratis]

How did this thread change from a discussion about cell phone use on teams to one about the all mighty importance one user? I mean, really?

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

How did this thread change from a discussion about cell phone use on teams to one about the all mighty importance one user? I mean, really?

Someone thought it better to focus on me than the topic?

Anyway - it got back on point: phone use during FIRST is a risk to manage.
There are likely a lot of opinions on how to best manage that risk.
However there are aspects of these solutions that should be considered.
Merely banning phones will not teach students how to handle their use better.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

How did this thread change from a discussion about cell phone use on teams to one about the all mighty importance one user? I mean, really?

For the same reason people can't look away from a train wreck as it's about to happen.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss

For the same reason people can't look away from a train wreck as it's about to happen.

Look it's only the future of the economy.
A necessary skill for managing life in a digital economy.

It's not that big a deal .

I mean just because the maps from that DynDNS attack look like something straight out of War Games:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/...ternet-outage/

Just because your automobiles are now getting 5.9GHz interconnection systems to make your car like FIRST robot:
http://www.broadcom.com/blog/automot...connected-car/
http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/a...e-advanced-and
(Imagine Einstein issues on I80 if you will)

Seriously...nothing to concern ourselves with...

Now back to cell phone usage risk...cause if you focus on the scale of this interconnectivity security problem...yeah it does seem basically enormous.

[Pauline Tasci]

To distract from the insanity of this thread....
I'd like to answer Kaitlyn's original question.

On 3476 we do not ban phones but rather encourage a working environment.
In the real world, college classes, ect people will have their phones out and while it can be a distraction it can also be a very useful tool. We usually open up small drawings, look up rules, post on our build blog, take videos, ect.

If students aren't working hard and just sitting playing something; a student or mentor will come up to the student and encourage them to make use of their time at robotics.

For starting the year, many students consider their phone their safety shield when they don't know anyone. So you might see a lot of students on their phone, do your best to make them feel apart of the team and the family!


Making the students feel like time at robotics is valued is really key!

Hope things are going well at Purdue Kaitlyn, we miss you out here in SoCal!

[techhelpbb]

Does anyone have a policy about banning specific content and communities from phones and other Internet devices they would like to share?

I know on several occasions people I've talked to have suggested banning various forums like Reddit and even Chief Delphi that on the surface pertain to FIRST but often stray because of the trolling opportunities going on.

I'm actually curious if the teams are approaching this as the serious waste of time it can be? I mean some people will try to get your goat just to see if they can push your buttons because they find that amusing. Some don't even care if there are consequences. I can't think of anything more counter productive and likely harmful to inclusive goals. Once you start feeling like a chunk of your community is predatory you really are straying into territory FIRST shouldn't - there's fun - then there's going too far.

There is no single force in FIRST that makes me feel less interested in being generous than the stuff that goes on in some of the forums attached to it. I think that's a real shame because it sets the idea in motion that trolling on all forums is tolerable, necessary and a practiced skill that improves the level of debate when, in reality, it usually results in long difficult to follow topics that are sensational but poor solutions to questions.

So doesn't anyone have a policy to specifically discourage their students from engaging in this activity during meetings and competitions? I can't think of any situation where it is more harmful and distracting than when time is critical or limited. I figure there must be some official policy out there on various teams because as a CSA I've suggested searching Chief Delphi to teams for occasional solutions and sometimes they are unwilling. It may just be the inefficiency of the medium.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Does anyone have a policy about banning specific content and communities from phones and other Internet devices they would like to share?

I know on several occasions people I've talked to have suggested banning various forums like Reddit and even Chief Delphi that on the surface pertain to FIRST but often stray because of the trolling opportunities going on.

I'm actually curious if the teams are approaching this as the serious waste of time it can be? I mean some people will try to get your goat just to see if they can push your buttons because they find that amusing. Some don't even care if there are consequences. I can't think of anything more counter productive and likely harmful to inclusive goals. Once you start feeling like a chunk of your community is predatory you really are straying into territory FIRST shouldn't - there's fun - then there's going too far.

There is no single force in FIRST that makes me feel less interested in being generous than the stuff that goes on in some of the forums attached to it. I think that's a real shame because it sets the idea in motion that trolling on all forums is tolerable, necessary and a practiced skill that improves the level of debate when, in reality, it usually results in long difficult to follow topics that are sensational but poor solutions to questions.

So doesn't anyone have a policy to specifically discourage their students from engaging in this activity during meetings and competitions? I can't think of any situation where it is more harmful and distracting than when time is critical or limited. I figure there must be some official policy out there on various teams because as a CSA I've suggested searching Chief Delphi to teams for occasional solutions and sometimes they are unwilling. It may just be the inefficiency of the medium.

Ive always found rambling posts with no point very inefficient too

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Ive always found rambling posts with no point very inefficient too

I get it. You don't like me. Now can you answer my question or would you rather continue to target me?
Is that to the point enough for you? Maybe you need some friends to make this tactic seem more okay to you?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

I get it. You don't like me. Now can you answer my question or would you rather continue to target me?
Is that to the point enough for you?

I did. I don't suggest my students come here anymore because too often I see posts exactly like I said - rambling semi coherent posts that maybe answer some question that the poster decided to answer rather than anything of real value.

You are hardly the worst offender in this category. Not every post is a dig at you.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I did. I don't suggest my students come here anymore because too often I see posts exactly like I said - rambling semi coherent posts that maybe answer some question that the poster decided to answer rather than anything of real value.

You are hardly the worst offender in this category. Not every post is a dig at you.

Fair enough. I misunderstood your intentions, or not...

From my feedback...
"NOW my post is intentionally disrespectful. Before it was at least thinly veiled."
Nice...

Look this is not cool. Not at all. Just gonna leave it at that and go on with my life.

Since we are going for the pile on: the entire point was that smartphones provide important and immediate access to state of your affairs. It's everywhere and as a professional I have an obligation to pay attention to it when it is safe to do so. I get that some of you can't follow that point anymore with this targeted effort directed at me so I stated it again.

It's a very relevant and valid point. If it brushes you the wrong way the importance of my work - it is more your issue than mine to restrain yourself from distracting this topic yourselves.

Furthering that point, getting notifications from other sources of Internet data which are less relevant (like this site) are frankly are not good reasons to distract from a team meeting or competition goal.

[SeeleySWS]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Fair enough. I misunderstood your intentions, or not...

From my feedback...
"NOW my post is intentionally disrespectful. Before it was at least thinly veiled."
Nice...

Look this is not cool. Not at all. Just gonna leave it at that and go on with my life.

Since we are going for the pile on: the entire point was that smartphones provide important and immediate access to state of your affairs. It's everywhere and as a professional I have an obligation to pay attention to it when it is safe to do so. I get that some of you can't follow that point anymore with this targeted effort directed at me so I stated it again.

It's a very relevant and valid point. If it brushes you the wrong way the importance of my work - it is more your issue than mine to restrain yourself from distracting this topic yourselves.

Furthering that point, getting notifications from other sources of Internet data which are less relevant (like this site) are frankly are not good reasons to distract from a team meeting or competition goal.

But nobody actually asked for your life story on how important you are? (It comes off sounding like bragging)

We don't have a phone policy but try to keep our phone use to a minimum when working. Mostly just common sense usage.

[AlexanderTheOK]

ooooook... back on topic maybe?

During robot programming training I will admit some of my students are on their phones. I have observed several to regularly be playing hearthstone on their mobile devices.

I have also observed students not on their phones randomly showing me "hey check what I did" with OpenCV and going neat.

I will put reasonable effort into getting students excited to do the thing that I love most, however I am not the police. If students are going to spend our limited sessions on their phones, my time is better spent explaining how neural networks work to the actively engaged students than policing the actively distracted students.


Quite frankly I think this works well because when I do police people, they don't enjoy the thing they're doing anyways and get nothing out of it. IMO the work you do in FRC needs to not feel like work. It needs to be a fun game that happens to result in a fulfilling ($$$) career down the line. If the game on your phone is more fun than teaching a robot to love see, I'm not a skilled enough teacher to change that, and quite frankly haven't had the pleasure of meeting someone who is. I would recommend looking into one of the many other facets of FRC that may capture your interest more thoroughly.