[FRC Blog] 2017 International Game Piece Option

[bdaroz]

2017 International Game Piece Option

Posted Nov 3

2017 International Game Piece Option
Written by Kate Pilotte, Kit of Parts Manager.


International teams (i.e. non-United States based teams) experience significant challenges in sourcing game elements from FIRST Choice: both in shipping time (~3-4 weeks for the items to arrive in their home countries) and extra fees associated with importing such items.

In response to this issue last year, FIRST added an option for those teams to devote an inflated number of FIRST Choice credits in exchange for receiving an extra set of game elements with their Kickoff Kits. The number of credits for this option is greater than the number of credits teams spend if using FIRST Choice normally (i.e. inflated) because we recognize the advantage inherent in the timing of early receipt, thus appropriate to reflect that in the FIRST Choice credit cost.

Teams who exercise this option will have their round one FIRST Choice credits reduced by 20%.

The option window is open for non-US teams only between 12:00 ET (Noon) on Tuesday, November 8 and 12:00 ET (Noon) on Tuesday, November 15.

In order to opt-in, a Lead Coach/Mentor 1 or 2 must

• log into your team’s registration account,
• click on the “Extra Game Piece Set Option” button on your Dashboard
• select “Yes” or “No” in the pop up window

You can change your team’s selection if you like, but only until the window closes.

The default option, and the result if you do nothing, is to not receive an extra set of game pieces at Kickoff and receive the full allotment of FIRST Choice credits.

We hope that this option will continue to mitigate some obstacles faced by non-US teams. As always we look forward to feedback about the implementation in the post-season Kit of Parts survey.

[ctt956]

"Game pieces", with an "s", meaning there may be more than one in the kit. IIRC, only one boulder came in the 2016 KOP. I'm not sure what was in the kit in previous years, but I'm guessing that it was one of each game piece, so in 2015, there was one tote(or the one(s) containing the Kit could be used), one trash can, and one noodle. So if there are game pieces in the 2017 Kits, there might be more than one type of game piece. Which seems to also follow a pattern, now that I think about it.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by ctt956

"Game pieces", with an "s", meaning there may be more than one in the kit. IIRC, only one boulder came in the 2016 KOP. I'm not sure what was in the kit in previous years, but I'm guessing that it was one of each game piece, so in 2015, there was one tote(or the one(s) containing the Kit could be used), one trash can, and one noodle. So if there are game pieces in the 2017 Kits, there might be more than one type of game piece. Which seems to also follow a pattern, now that I think about it.

Haha, you may be reading a bit too much into the use of plurality. It's referred to as both a singular piece and multiple pieces throughout the blog post. However, the fact that the button is quoted as being the "Extra Game Piece Set Option" is a bit more convincing. A set removes some of the ambiguity, but to be honest, I doubt they're going to such pains about releasing info. There may be more than one unique game piece for 2017, there may not.

[Matt Ciprietti]

Yeah, don't read too much into that. Likely you're only going to get one more of whatever the game piece(s) are that are included in the basic kit of parts. This was the case in 2016 - the kit contained one boulder, and we received one more boulder by opting in to this. Which, by the way, was a terrible deal for 20% of your FIRST Choice credits.

I was hoping that they might try and address this lack of value this year, but it seems that they have doubled down on it - apparently the "inflated" cost is intentional? That doesn't sound too logical when you think about it. The whole point of the option is to rectify an inherent disadvantage that international teams have. So if you opt in to get a game piece, you aren't so much getting an advantage over other teams, you are just not at a disadvantage in comparison.

So for Canadian teams at least, I'd think twice about this. If nothing else, there are lots of cross-border pick-up options if you feel you need more game pieces quickly and don't mind going for a little drive.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Matt Ciprietti

Yeah, don't read too much into that. Likely you're only going to get one more of whatever the game piece(s) are that are included in the basic kit of parts. This was the case in 2016 - the kit contained one boulder, and we received one more boulder by opting in to this. Which, by the way, was a terrible deal for 20% of your FIRST Choice credits.

If this means that the game pieces are similarly expensive this year, that too is terrible.

[Andrew_L]

Originally Posted by Basel A

If this means that the game pieces are similarly expensive this year, that too is terrible.

My favorite game pieces are the kind exclusively sold through AndyMark.

[Chris is me]

I still have no idea why this is limited to international teams.

[alectronic]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I still have no idea why this is limited to international teams.

Doesn't it explain this in the blog? There's a practical reason the international friends need it. Domestically, this would probably be too hard to scale and have a "different thing for every team" compared to normal kickoff boxes. It's a very different scale.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by alectronic

Doesn't it explain this in the blog? There's a practical reason the international friends need it.

Which isn't really an argument against it being for domestic teams at all - this is only an argument in favor of the option existing for international teams.

Domestically, this would probably be too hard to scale and have a "different thing for every team" compared to normal kickoff boxes. It's a very different scale.

This is exactly what happens already with the KoP opt-in / opt-out program as it is. FIRST already handles "different thing for every team" just fine, with much bigger (generally), heavier, more expensive things. Different teams get different selections of stuff. Without knowing the game piece it's hard to say for sure but for example last year, it can't be that hard to throw another dozen balls in the shipping container for your local Kickoff.

[jaredhk]

Originally Posted by Basel A

If this means that the game pieces are similarly expensive this year, that too is terrible.

It could also mean that shipping is just expensive for a bulky item. So big game pieces?

Originally Posted by Andrew_L

My favorite game pieces are the kind exclusively sold through AndyMark.

I also love when this happens. My favorite part, however, is when their shipping algorithm charges substantially more than the cost of the item.

[pilleya]

Access to plenty of gamepieces early in the build season really does make a difference for teams. In 2015 it was difficult to design a robot to build multiple 6 stacks when we didn’t actually have 6 totes for a long time. Having just a few gamepieces at the start of the season( for a week or so) can narrow down your strategy and robot to working with only a few game pieces as you don’t get to see the bigger picture.

You can try substitute the official gamepiece with something similiar( such as the 2013/2014 KOP totes) while you wait but there are always differences( such as tote height etc.).

The system of trading FC credits for an extra boulder seemed reasonable this year. As the value of the FC credits would probably equal the price from Andymark+express postage

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by jaredhk

I also love when this happens. My favorite part, however, is when their shipping algorithm charges substantially more than the cost of the item.

When has it charged more than the cost of the item? Not even 2015 was that way for within the US.

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I still have no idea why this is limited to international teams.

It explains in the post.
(I'll use my country, Australia, as an example here)

It's hard for us to source parts from overseas, and even harder for us to source them locally, especially game pieces.

The added costs that we have that 'domestic' teams don't have to deal with include: Shipping, Exchange Rate, and other charges. What's more is that some suppliers straight up won't ship overseas. There's also a lot of delay with it going through customs / postage here, which can be possible trouble. Allowing us to purchase these through FIRST choice doesn't necessarily eliminate this, but it does make it a bit easier on us.

Also keep in mind that we don't get our KOP on start build day. They're shipped out express on start build day. For us over here in Western Australia, I believe they are shipped to Sydney, and then sent to us over on the other side. This adds at least a couple days before we even get our hands on the Kit of Parts, scratching what could be prototyping time.

Game pieces are a specifically tricky thing to get, because we have to balance "one extra game piece, but all these extra costs, time and trouble".

We already have so much trouble compared to 'domestic' teams with a lot of stuff, is it really all that bad if we get one thing nice?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Jaci

It explains in the post.
(I'll use my country, Australia, as an example here)

It's hard for us to source parts from overseas, and even harder for us to source them locally, especially game pieces.

The added costs that we have that 'domestic' teams don't have to deal with include: Shipping, Exchange Rate, and other charges. What's more is that some suppliers straight up won't ship overseas. There's also a lot of delay with it going through customs / postage here, which can be possible trouble. Allowing us to purchase these through FIRST choice doesn't necessarily eliminate this, but it does make it a bit easier on us.

Also keep in mind that we don't get our KOP on start build day. They're shipped out express on start build day. For us over here in Western Australia, I believe they are shipped to Sydney, and then sent to us over on the other side. This adds at least a couple days before we even get our hands on the Kit of Parts, scratching what could be prototyping time.

Game pieces are a specifically tricky thing to get, because we have to balance "one extra game piece, but all these extra costs, time and trouble".

We already have so much trouble compared to 'domestic' teams with a lot of stuff, is it really all that bad if we get one thing nice?

Once again, while all of these are great reasons for the program to exist for international teams, none of these are reasons for the program not to exist for domestic teams.

I've certainly never said (nor would I) that if domestic teams can't have access to this, then nobody should. Of course as many teams as possible have this option - international teams shouldn't be denied something out of spite because domestic teams don't have it.

What I'm saying, once again, is that FIRST already has experience and a structure in place for giving teams KoP packages that vary based on team preference, and that working toward expanding this option for everyone should be somewhere on their priority list. For the past two seasons they haven't even mentioned this possibility, as if there's no reason domestic teams would want this, when people have been asking for years.

Originally Posted by Andrew_L

My favorite game pieces are the kind exclusively sold through AndyMark.

Even when they're not exclusively through AndyMark (and when is the last time they were?), AM has always had the best combination of price, shipping rate, and shipping speed for me. I don't get the hate here; they're a great company that responds to the needs of FRC teams unlike any other.

[Taylor]

Chris - I really don't follow your reasoning.
To make a really awful analogy to how I interpret your argument, if vision-impaired people get eyeglasses, then everybody should get eyeglasses.
Domestic teams already have access to the parts, by virtue of them being in America. Those teams not in America have limited or difficult access, so the FC option helps level the field.