ShopBot Desktop router up for the challenge?

[asid61]

That Charter oak mill looks interesting, although I've never seen one before (maybe somebody else could chime in?). It advertises AC servos, P3 ball screws, and and an NT30 spindle upgrade. Unless they're fudging those numbers, it should be a lot better than a Tormach. You could try getting a demo of some kind with them just to see what they offer.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by asid61

That Charter oak mill looks interesting, although I've never seen one before (maybe somebody else could chime in?). It advertises AC servos, P3 ball screws, and and an NT30 spindle upgrade.

Yeah, that's why I am considering it, it seems to be made with great parts and has a much larger cutting area than the other new machines in our budget. Can't find too much online about it though.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

You could do a Tormach Mill with a little bit of tooling for right around the $10k mark (barely).

Tormach definitely looks great, but the small cutting area and floor mount are tough. IFF a smaller router can get us accurate gearbox plates in 1/4" aluminum, then that may be all we need. Let me ask this, what would make you buy a mill over a router?

I cannot recommend the other two mills you linked. They are oddball Chinese machines, and I doubt you would be happy with them.

What makes you say that about the Charter Oak one? What would it's downsides be?

Oh and THANKS for the info about a router being louder, good to know that I had it backwards

[Fusion_Clint]

I suggest you find a way to make room for a machine that will do what you need. Specifically, having the ability to cut your own rails. So I suggest an X or Y axis of at least 36 inches, so that you can do an entire rail without repositioning the piece.

I like our Velox, so in your position I would seriously look at the VR2536 with a 3 HP HSD spindle. http://imgur.com/a/sXwSB

At least look at the http://shopbottools.com/mProducts/desktop-max.htm but I would be leary of the 1 HP spindel.

A spindle is significantly quieter than a router on these type of machines and gives you a way of controlling your tool speed(RPMs). You will need to mount some type of coolant system compressed air and/or a mist system. You can't be recutting the same chips over and over, so compressed air to clear the chips is a must. These single flute tools from tools today do a great job on aluminum and clear chips pretty well. http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5801-sol...uter-bits.aspx

You can build your own enclosure and/or get a vacuum hood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrKKsYCb8Tg

I suggest you get something you can grow into, once you start your own machining I doubt you will want to do less.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint

I suggest you find a way to make room for a machine that will do what you need. Specifically, having the ability to cut your own rails. So I suggest an X or Y axis of at least 36 inches, so that you can do an entire rail without repositioning the piece.

I like our Velox, so in your position I would seriously look at the VR2536 with a 3 HP HSD spindle. http://imgur.com/a/sXwSB

At least look at the http://shopbottools.com/mProducts/desktop-max.htm but I would be leary of the 1 HP spindel.

A spindle is significantly quieter than a router on these type of machines and gives you a way of controlling your tool speed(RPMs). You will need to mount some type of coolant system compressed air and/or a mist system. You can't be recutting the same chips over and over, so compressed air to clear the chips is a must. These single flute tools from tools today do a great job on aluminum and clear chips pretty well. http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5801-sol...uter-bits.aspx

You can build your own enclosure and/or get a vacuum hood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrKKsYCb8Tg

I suggest you get something you can grow into, once you start your own machining I doubt you will want to do less.

THIS! EVERYTHING THIS.

Please find your selves more room to put a bigger machine in, the cost is marginal and the utility is HUGE. Please don't limit yourselves to 24", I know it's a lot of room but it is such a valuable machine. We machined at least 75% of all 3 robots we built last season with our VeloxCNC 50x50, you will use all the space you buy.

You could potentially mount it to a wall and not the floor to make the foot print smaller, Velox should be able to handle it without noticing. Just be clever and I'm sure you can come up with a solution, we build robots after all.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

You could potentially mount it to a wall and not the floor to make the foot print smaller, Velox should be able to handle it without noticing. Just be clever and I'm sure you can come up with a solution, we build robots after all.

They're not designed with counterbalance for this orientation, so potentially you would need to add that.

Other than that, this is a fairly common configuration with lighter duty machines.

[Dale]

We have both a ShopBot Buddy 2'x4' router and a Tormach 1100. Both are fantastic tools. If I had to choose one, though, I'd choose the router without a second thought for FRC. With that tool with a 2'x4' build volume you can fabricate an entire FRC robot. Sure, there are 3D things you'd have a hard time doing without the CNC mill but you just design your robot for the tools you have. Being down the road from ShopBot sure doesn't hurt either. Check out the 2016 reveal video of Zuko which was build entirely using the ShopBot buddy, no other CNC tools and no outsourcing.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

THIS! EVERYTHING THIS.

Please find your selves more room to put a bigger machine in, the cost is marginal and the utility is HUGE. Please don't limit yourselves to 24", I know it's a lot of room but it is such a valuable machine. We machined at least 75% of all 3 robots we built last season with our VeloxCNC 50x50, you will use all the space you buy.

The biggest thing holding me back from getting a Velox is the potential noise. Using our chopsaw to cut wood is loud enough to stop all conversation in our shop and I can't get a good feel for how loud the heavy duty 3.5HP router on the Velox's is going to be. Upgrading to a powerful spindle would help, but not at Velox's prices, and I don't know enough about spindles to find a reliable one from China.
Do you have a gauge for the level of noise produced by this machine?

[Steven Smith]

Same as you, when the chopsaw whirs, I stop mid-sentence to let it finish. I can now talk over the gantry mill.

For ours, with a 3kW water cooled spindle...The spindle on at cutting speed is just a hum, very quiet. We have a 2HP blower in the room that is a bit louder.

You do get some noise when cutting, especially if you have a poor cut or any chatter/vibrating, but that should be addressed for other reasons than just noise.

When we had a commercial router (air cooled), you had to yell to talk over the gantry. While i wouldn't characterize the new spindle it as "quiet" at least it is fairly consistent so you just adjust your voice over it. Additionally, normal routers force air down towards the bit for cooling, which blows dust everywhere. A water cooled spindle is a lot better for that natively, but you may still want air assist and a vacuum for chip management.

tl:dr;, Our setup isn't quiet by any means, but it isn't deafening, and we can work in the area while the mill is running without difficulty communicating.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by Monochron

The biggest thing holding me back from getting a Velox is the potential noise. Using our chopsaw to cut wood is loud enough to stop all conversation in our shop and I can't get a good feel for how loud the heavy duty 3.5HP router on the Velox's is going to be. Upgrading to a powerful spindle would help, but not at Velox's prices, and I don't know enough about spindles to find a reliable one from China.
Do you have a gauge for the level of noise produced by this machine?

We will all wear either ear plugs or earmuffs in the shop while doing part runs on our router(we do have the 3.5 HP router) and I can carry on a conversation with people in the shop while everyone is wearing plugs. It is loud, sure, but it is not unreasonably so. You will only find yourself close to yelling when right next to the router during heavy cuts, everywhere else you only need to raise your voice to be heard through ear plugs. We have cubicle dividers around our router to help attenuate some of the noise.

If you got the water cooled 220V spindle, they are WAY quieter. I will gladly help you find a source from China for a spindle if you desire as they are WAY cheaper(even if you need a VFD to get the voltage). I want to change out our router for a spindle because it is much nicer to work with because you can control your speed via code.

My offer goes for everyone by the way, machines are one of the biggest things I do on 1678 and I love talking about it and helping others with what I know.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

We will all wear either ear plugs or earmuffs in the shop while doing part runs on our router(we do have the 3.5 HP router) and I can carry on a conversation with people in the shop while everyone is wearing plugs. It is loud, sure, but it is not unreasonably so. You will only find yourself close to yelling when right next to the router during heavy cuts, everywhere else you only need to raise your voice to be heard through ear plugs. We have cubicle dividers around our router to help attenuate some of the noise.

If you got the water cooled 220V spindle, they are WAY quieter. I will gladly help you find a source from China for a spindle if you desire as they are WAY cheaper(even if you need a VFD to get the voltage). I want to change out our router for a spindle because it is much nicer to work with because you can control your speed via code.

My offer goes for everyone by the way, machines are one of the biggest things I do on 1678 and I love talking about it and helping others with what I know.

If you don't mind posting links to spindles, I would certainly appreciate that.

[RoboChair]

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cnc-spindle-motor
or
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2LEHNTN7VNJII

I would suggest a 2.2 kw water cooled one with ER20 collets. If you do not have 220V power you will likely require a VFD as well.
You will also need to make sure that you will have a mount to hold it.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cnc-spindle-motor
or
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2LEHNTN7VNJII

I would suggest a 2.2 kw water cooled one with ER20 collets. If you do not have 220V power you will likely require a VFD as well.
You will also need to make sure that you will have a mount to hold it.

We've been very happy with our 2.2 kw spindle from keling inc on our router for the last 5 years.

I just purchased an X8 (w/ x6 usb controller) from Omio CNC that came with the same spindle, and happy with it so far.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cnc-spindle-motor
or
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2LEHNTN7VNJII

I would suggest a 2.2 kw water cooled one with ER20 collets. If you do not have 220V power you will likely require a VFD as well.
You will also need to make sure that you will have a mount to hold it.

Are most any spindles with these specs from ebay or Amazon worth the purchase? I'm not sure if spindles are something where anything you get with these specs will do the job, or if you could be causing yourself serious pain by going with a knock off.
Is there anything aside from those specs that I should keep an eye out for? Good/bad manufacturers?

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Are most any spindles with these specs from ebay or Amazon worth the purchase? I'm not sure if spindles are something where anything you get with these specs will do the job, or if you could be causing yourself serious pain by going with a knock off.
Is there anything aside from those specs that I should keep an eye out for? Good/bad manufacturers?

My best suggestions would be to not buy the cheapest one and read their product description thoroughly to see if anything is lacking or off, read the reviews. But we are buying these to be run periodically on our machines, we are not running them every day all day to make money with them. So while they might not be on the same level of quality that a true industrial version would be at, that degree of quality would be wasted on our application. And when you think of it, it's just bearings, motor windings, and a water cooling channel in a motor body, stuff that Chinese manufacturers have down well already.

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Are most any spindles with these specs from ebay or Amazon worth the purchase? I'm not sure if spindles are something where anything you get with these specs will do the job, or if you could be causing yourself serious pain by going with a knock off.
Is there anything aside from those specs that I should keep an eye out for? Good/bad manufacturers?

This style of spindle has become common enough in Chinese CNC machines that (assuming the specs match) they are all basically identical and likely made in the same factory. There is no "knock off" and they are all well made especially considering the price. Chinese VFDs can be a bit more hit and miss. I've had good luck with the ones I've used but if you have the budget I'd definitely recommend getting one from a more reputable manufacturer like these ones from Automation Direct.