Registration 2016

[Mark McLeod]

I'm just going by the FIRST team list, and 6216 is still on it.
I heard that 6216 turned down mentoring team assistance during the build period, but their students got daunted by the challenge of their first time building a robot.
I know of a half dozen teams that didn't show up for their scheduled event, but FIRST only seems to remove those that didn't find the funding for the registration fee.

[Mark McLeod]

Long after this thread was done I decided to look at the average cost per team under the different systems in place, and that's only possible after the fact.

This doesn't look at number of matches played or anything like that. It's only focused on how much it cost teams playing under different Regional and District systems. The question was driven by practical considerations that new teams have in planning for a starting budget.

This doesn't take into account sources of funding, e.g., NASA grants, FIRST Rookie or Hardship grants, state funding, schools, sponsors, etc. All of which changes the actual impact on individual teams.
The interesting part was for the most part the average cost per team in each area was comparable, but in some areas it was rather higher.

------------------------
So, for the past 2016 season:

Total registration fees amounted to: $24,644,988

Area/Type --------------------- Total Cost ----- Avg cost per team ------- Number of events

Regional Rookies -------------- $1,946,000 --- Avg/team = $7,371 ----- 241=1 event, 23=2 events, 54=CMP
Regional Vets ----------------- $12,753,000 --- Avg/team = $7,519 ----- 1035=1 event, 610=2 events, 51=3 events, 285=CMP
FIM-MAR Rookies ---------------- $585,500 --- Avg/team = $7,411 ----- 78=2 events, 1=3 events, 14=DCMP, 11=CMP
FIM-MAR Vets ------------------ $3,493,500 --- Avg/team = $7,712 ----- 1=1 district, 415=2 districts, 37=3 districts, 108=CMP, 148=DCMP, 18=Regionals, 6=Inter-District
PNW ----------------------------- $1,902,988 ---- Avg/team = $12,044 ---- 148=2 districts, 10=3 Districts, 2=1 Regional, 64=DCMP, 35=CMP
NC-PCH-NE-IN-CHS Rookies --- $374,000 ---- Avg/team = $8,698 ------ 43=2 districts, 19=DCMP, 8=CMP
NC-PCH-NE-IN-CHS Vets ----- $3,590,000 ---- Avg/team = $8,215 ------ 9=1 district,391=2 districts, 36=3 districts, 1=4 districts, 205=DCMP, 99=CMP, 13=Regionals, 2=Inter-District

[Cothron Theiss]

Anyone want to shed some light on why the PNW District average cost per team is several thousand dollars more than the others?

[Mark McLeod]

It's because PNW uses a fixed price.
I hope that in actual practice the cost may be offset by hardship and other support grants to low-funded teams that PNW may provide.

For instance, 199 Regional Rookies paid only $6000 each to play - no second events or world championship-almost 1000 Regional vets only paid $5000 to play. Even paying for two Regional events is cheaper than the single PNW price, but the PNW price includes the District Championship if the team qualifies.
Overall across the board there were only 10 District teams that chose to play only a single event.

[Jon Stratis]

FIM-MR had 453 teams and 148 at DCMP, if I'm reading that right - 32% of teams. 37 attended a third district, or 8%. 18 attended a regional, or 4%.

PNW, on the other hand, had 158 teams and 64 at DCMP - 40% of teams. 10 teams attended 3 districts, or 6%. 2 attending a regional, or 1.3%.

I suspect at least part of it comes from that math. You had a higher percentage of teams spend more money to attend more events in PNW than in other places.

I think there's also a difference in the district cost depending on the district, isn't there?

[Mark McLeod]

Here are the prices I used: (please correct any errors)

Registration --------------- Veteran ----- Rookie --- extra Regionals -- 3rd District - Inter-District - District CMP - World CMP

Regional teams -------------- 5000.00 ----- 6000.00 ----- 4000.00 ------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----- 5000.00
FIM/MAR teams -------------- 5000.00 ----- 6000.00 ----- 4000.00 ------------ 500.00 --------- 1000.00 ------- 4000.00 -------- 5000.00
NE/IN/CHS/PCH/NC teams -- 5000.00 ----- 6000.00 ----- 4000.00 ----------- 1000.00 --------- 1000.00 ------- 4000.00 -------- 5000.00
PNW teams ------------------ 10886.00 --- 10886.00 ----- 4000.00 ----- ----- 1000.00 ----------1000.00 -------------------------- 5000.00

[Mark McLeod]

Here is a detailed breakdown of registration expenses just for the rookie teams in each area.
For example, 11 Regional Rookie teams only attended 2 regional events for a combined registration cost of $110,000 or $10,000 per team.
199 rookie teams attended 1 regional, 11 teams attended 2 regionals, 42 attended 1 regional+CMP, and 12 teams went to 2 regionals+CMP.

------------------------------------ 1 regional---- 2 regionals ----- 1+CMP ------ 2+CMP
Regional Rookies ($1,946,000) -- 199 ---------- 11 ------------ 42 ----------- 12
264 total teams ----------------- $1,194,000 --- $110,000 --- $462,000 --- $180,000
Avg/team = $7,371 ----------------- $6,000 ---- $10,000 ----- $11,000 ---- $15,000

------------------------------------ 2 districts---- 3 districts----- 2+CMP --- 2+DCMP --- 2+DCMP+CMP
FIM-MAR Rookies ($585,500) ----- 63 ----------- 1 ----------- 1 ---------- 4 ------------ 10
79 total teams ------------------- $378,000 ----- $6,500 --- $11,000 --- $40,000 ---- $150,000
Avg/team = $7,411 ---------------- $6,000 ----- $6,500 --- $11,000 --- $10,000 ------ $15,000

-------------------------------------------------- 2 districts------ 2+CMP ----- 2+DCMP ----- 2+DCMP+CMP
NC-PCH-NE-IN-CHS Rookies ($374,000) ----- 23 ------------ 1 ------------- 2 --------------- 7
43 total teams -------------------------------- $138,000 ----- $11,000 ----- $120,000 ----- $105,000
Avg/team = $8,698 ----------------------------- $6,000 ----- $11,000 ------- $10,000 ------ $15,000

------------------------------- 2 districts ----- 2+DCMP ----- 2+DCMP+CMP ----- 3+DCMP+CMP
PNW Rookies ($157,518) ----- 8 ------------ 2 ---------------- 2 -------------------- 1
13 total teams -------------- $87,088 ----- $21,772 -------- $31,772 ------------ $16,886
Avg/team = $12,117 ------- $10,886 ----- $10,886 -------- $15,886 ------------ $16,886

[Mark McLeod]

Here are some other closing registration numbers for the 2016 season.
I've also attached a spreadsheet with the breakout of how many teams incurred how much in registration expenses in case someone else thinks of something to look at.

2016 Events per team
1 ----- 1190
2 ----- 1173
3 ----- 462
4 ----- 247
5 ----- 56
6 ----- 2

Registration Pymts by teams (21 distinct variations of total team payments based on the number and type of events attended):
(Average Registration Fee = $7,877)

Reg Pymt - # teams --- % ------- Total
$5,000 ----- 1472 ------ 47.0% ----- $7,360,000
$5,500 ------- 17 ---------0.5% ----- $93,500
$6,000 ------ 288 ------- 9.2% ----- $1,728,000
$6,500 -------- 1 -------- 0.0% ----- $6,500
$9,000 ------ 556 ----- 17.8% ----- $5,004,000
$9,500 -------- 5 ------- 0.2% ----- $47,500
$10,000 ----- 105 ------ 3.4% ----- $1,050,000
$10,500 ------- 3 ------- 0.1% ----- $31,500
$10,886 ----- 121 ------ 3.9% ----- $1,317,206
$11,000 ------ 46 ------- 1.5% ----- $506,000
$11,886 ------- 2 -------- 0.1% ----- $23,772
$13,000 ------ 24 ------- 0.8% ----- $312,000
$14,000 ----- 347 ----- 11.1% ----- $4,858,000
$14,500 ------ 13 ------- 0.4% ----- $188,500
$15,000 ------ 51 ------- 1.6% ----- $765,000
$15,886 ------ 25 ------- 0.8% ----- $397,150
$16,886 ------- 8 ------- 0.3% ----- $135,088
$17,000 ------- 1 -------- 0.0% ----- $17,000
$18,000 ------ 41 ------- 1.3% ----- $738,000
$19,000 ------- 2 -------- 0.1% ----- $38,000
$19,886 ------- 2 -------- 0.1% ----- $39,772

[MrRoboSteve]

Last year PNW went to a funding model where they charge teams the full cost of the district events, and grant out all of their event fundraising to teams as a subsidy. The net cost to teams was between $5000 and $6800, according to this page:

https://www.firstwa.org/Team-Resourc...ls/FRC-Funding

[Mark McLeod]

Based on PNWFIRST facebook comments from November 25, 2015
The final cost for some Vets seemed to be $6,366.
The final cost for some Rookies was $5,225.
The grant and funding seems to be a mixed bag and is hard for an outsider to track. The early deadlines would make it impossible for all teams to apply for certain grants, too.
I'm trying to ignore independent grants or the affect of state funding and just focus on PNW rebates (based of course on the success of their fundraising efforts for unrestricted grants).


I'll update based on this unofficial assumption.

Does anyone have links to the PNW final team briefings on 2016 team fee costs?
I found video briefings, but no official accounting.

[Mark McLeod]

Here are the updated registration costs, for the past 2016 season:
(Still looking for official PNW final pricing sources, since actual PNW average price is almost certainly higher.)

Total registration fees amounted to: $23,927,495

Area/Type --------------------- Total Cost ----- Avg cost per team ------- Number of events

Regional Rookies -------------- $1,946,000 --- Avg/team = $7,371 ----- 241=1 event, 23=2 events, 54=CMP
Regional Vets ----------------- $12,753,000 --- Avg/team = $7,519 ----- 1035=1 event, 610=2 events, 51=3 events, 285=CMP
FIM-MAR Rookies ---------------- $585,500 --- Avg/team = $7,411 ----- 78=2 events, 1=3 events, 14=DCMP, 11=CMP
FIM-MAR Vets ------------------ $3,493,500 --- Avg/team = $7,712 ----- 1=1 district, 415=2 districts, 37=3 districts, 108=CMP, 148=DCMP, 18=Regionals, 6=Inter-District

PNW Rookies ----------------------- $83,925 --- Avg/team = $6,456 ----- 12=2 districts, 1=3 Districts, 5=DCMP, 3=CMP
PNW Vets ------------------------ $1,100,070 --- Avg/team = $7,587 ----- 136=2 districts, 9=3 Districts, 2=1 Regional, 59=DCMP, 32=CMP

NC-PCH-NE-IN-CHS Rookies --- $374,000 ---- Avg/team = $8,698 ------ 43=2 districts, 19=DCMP, 8=CMP
NC-PCH-NE-IN-CHS Vets ----- $3,590,000 ---- Avg/team = $8,215 ------ 9=1 district,391=2 districts, 36=3 districts, 1=4 districts, 205=DCMP, 99=CMP, 13=Regionals, 2=Inter-District


-----------------------------------------------

Here are the revised prices I used:

Registration ------------- Veteran ---- Rookie -- extra Regionals -- 3rd District - Inter-District - District CMP - World CMP

Regional teams -------------- 5000 ------- 6000 ----------- 4000 ------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----- 5000
FIM/MAR teams -------------- 5000 ------- 6000 ----------- 4000 ------------- 500 ---------- 1000 ------------ 4000 ----------- 5000
NE/IN/CHS/PCH/NC teams -- 5000 ------- 6000 ----------- 4000 ------------ 1000 ---------- 1000 ------------ 4000 ----------- 5000
PNW teams ------------------- 6366 ------- 5225 ----------- 4000 ----- ------ 1000 -----------1000 ------------------------------ 5000

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Does anyone have links to the PNW final team briefings on 2016 team fee costs?
I found video briefings, but no official accounting.

There won't be one final number for all PNW teams, since it's different for every team. The PNW fundraised pass-through grants aren't entirely unrestricted, so the FIRST Washington staff works to honor grant intent while evening out the final fees, but there isn't one universal public number. Everbody's invoice looks different.

The numbers you've listed look reasonable for 2016.

[Jon Stratis]

I find it rather interesting that the average cost per team actually goes up for all of the districts compared to regionals (although you do get more matches for that cost)... Which raises the question, should we be looking to optimize for number of matches/events played (which many argue increases competitiveness), or for cost per team (where a lower cost could help recruit and retain more teams per year)?

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I find it rather interesting that the average cost per team actually goes up for all of the districts compared to regionals...

Just as a side note...
One of the elements in dropping the average cost per team seems to be in developing a large pool of teams, so that more and more are not offered the opportunity (extra cost) to attend district championships.
That broadens the base of minimum expenditure teams and drops the overall average per team cost.