STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr

I realize that there have been post on this subject but now there is actual evidence of it happening

Well, there is evidence of FRC Canada publicizing a STEAM award. It isn't their award though, and it isn't associated with FRC in anyway which you insinuate in your OP.

[Cole Cyr]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Well, there is evidence of FRC Canada publicizing a STEAM award. It isn't their award though, and it isn't associated with FRC in anyway which you insinuate in your OP.

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

is there really?
looks like it's a 3rd party prize that CAFIRST is promoting. Much Ado About Nothing.

A large majority of prizes are by 3rd party groups and the promotion of STEAM is a shift in marketing that has to be attributed to some decision made, and im guessing its the slow introduction of STEAM

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr

A large majority of prizes are by 3rd party groups and the promotion of STEAM is a shift in marketing that has to be attributed to some decision made, and im guessing its the slow introduction of STEAM

What do you mean a majority of prizes are by 3rd party groups? There are lots of awards that organization other than FIRST gives out? Well yes, there are plenty of contests unrelated to FIRST. Prizes for FIRST awards are provided by 3rd party groups? Very few FIRST awards come with tangible prizes to begin with.

If you were just mistaken about FIRST CA's involvement in the prize, that's fine, mistakes are easy to make. But them promoting a single contest that VERY closely overlaps with FIRST's goals doesn't indicate a slow replacement of STEM with STEAM within FIRST.

They are definitely promoting STEAM, possibly due to the theme of this year's game. What would really be interesting is evidence that FIRST promoting STEAM will continue after this year's game. I haven't seen anything like that yet.

[waialua359]

Blame FIRST for coming up with this year's game "STEAMWorks."
We used the term over 8 years ago as I found some old documentation of ours.

[D.Allred]

Originally Posted by Monochron

Well, there is evidence of FRC Canada publicizing a STEAM award. It isn't their award though, and it isn't associated with FRC in anyway which you insinuate in your OP.

Cole,
Could you explain your apprehension? As I read it, the award is designed to provide scholarship money for student leaders / innovators. The "art" portion opens the opportunity to a broader group.

I would say all the FIRST CA students have gained an opportunity. Win-win. Where is the loss?

Snip from the website...
Are you often described as a leader, an achiever, or an innovator? Do you have limitless drive, ambition, and determination? If so, there’s an opportunity to receive a $25,000 prize towards your post-secondary education.

The STEAM Horizon Awards, a newly funded prize program, invites Canada’s youth to promote positive changes throughout their community using science, technology, engineering, arts, and math (STEAM).

Up to seven students will each be awarded a $25,000 prize for their post-secondary education. Two of the seven prizes will go to Indigenous youth. The prizes will be funded by the Canada Science and Technology Museums Corporation Foundation, alongside eight Founding Partners. We are confident that these recipients will act as role models and ambassadors for future STEAM generations.

[Cole Cyr]

Originally Posted by D.Allred

Cole,
Could you explain your apprehension? As I read it, the award is designed to provide scholarship money for student leaders / innovators. The "art" portion opens the opportunity to a broader group.

I would say all the FIRST CA students have gained an opportunity. Win-win. Where is the loss?

Snip from the website...
Are you often described as a leader, an achiever, or an innovator? Do you have limitless drive, ambition, and determination? If so, there’s an opportunity to receive a $25,000 prize towards your post-secondary education.

The STEAM Horizon Awards, a newly funded prize program, invites Canada’s youth to promote positive changes throughout their community using science, technology, engineering, arts, and math (STEAM).

Up to seven students will each be awarded a $25,000 prize for their post-secondary education. Two of the seven prizes will go to Indigenous youth. The prizes will be funded by the Canada Science and Technology Museums Corporation Foundation, alongside eight Founding Partners. We are confident that these recipients will act as role models and ambassadors for future STEAM generations.

I am not saying that the award is bad im just commenting on the awards impact on the environment. any award that we can get is great and if there wasn't so much talk about steam already i would think nothing of this award. but with STEAM being thought to be the new STEM im using it as evidence of the legitimacy of these claims.

[KosmicKhaos]

I think the broad use of the term "Art" is what makes people not like it to be included in STEM including myself. Art does not belong in the STEM acronym. "Art" is a far too broad term to include with the other subjects. I understand that parts of art can be used in STEM like design but I don't think its right to classify all of art with STEM.

Interesting perspective from another source-
"Art is often touted as a method of adding creativity to STEM—but keep in mind that engineers are rarely lacking for creativity and ingenuity. Just look at the world around you for proof."

Does art belong in STEM? No, but parts of it certainly do like design. However in my opinion those that do already fall under engineering. There is no reason to bring them together.

"en·gi·neer·ing
ˌenjəˈniriNG/
noun
the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures."

[tjf]

Building a good robot *is* an art, and some of the stuff people make for FIRST is definitely artsy. But to add art, being the arts, to the aspects that they try to preach, it enables FIRST to be a surrogate educator in every traditional class.

Is it such a bad thing? #musicgame2018

[Cole Cyr]

Originally Posted by tjf

Building a good robot *is* an art, and some of the stuff people make for FIRST is definitely artsy. But to add art, being the arts, to the aspects that they try to preach, it enables FIRST to be a surrogate educator in every traditional class.

Is it such a bad thing? #musicgame2018

Music game... would you want any aspect of the game to be subjective and have an effect on the points system. you gain extra points if the judges deem your robot good looking... thats the path were on.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr

you gain extra points if the judges deem your robot good looking... thats the path were on.

Presumably you have more "evidence" for this claim?

I'm not seeing a lot of real evidence for the claims you are making. This seems like another one.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr

Music game... would you want any aspect of the game to be subjective and have an effect on the points system. you gain extra points if the judges deem your robot good looking... thats the path were on.

I assume you meant refs or zebras. They wear the striped shirts and their territory, the field, is shared with the FTAs. Judges wear the blue shirts (or red shirts for Safety Judges[1], I'm pretty sure that color is used in Canada too) and tend to have little to do with the field.

Judges have nothing to do with points but it may surprise you to know that if the judges like how your robot looks it's more likely you end up with a judged award. (which I guess counts as points in Districts). "BUT THATS UNFAIR RAWR ART SHOULDN'T COUNT" I can hear you screaming now. But it's fairly obvious, judges are people and tend to better recall things they liked seeing.

Top tips for talking to judges - clean pit, clean appearance, and be confident about your stuff. I KNOW I've given awards to teams over other teams because the students articulated things better or because I didn't see literal garbage strewn about a pit.

So, no, we're not ON that path, we've gone down that path and are now having a nice picnic.


[1] Which I've always found kinda funny, isn't it the red shirts in star trek that always die?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

[1] Which I've always found kinda funny, isn't it the red shirts in star trek that always die?

In the original series, yes (red shirts were worn by operations, which included security personnel, so it makes sense they were on the front lines). That changed in later series, though, as the uniform colors changed (and there were significantly fewer deaths in the later series as well).

And now we return to your regularly scheduled topic...

[mman1506]

If anything the switch from STEM to STEAM open up additional sponsorship opportunities. When a corporation donates to FIRST they can now say that they support both arts and technology in schools. Two birds one stone. It's obvious that arts are a big part of FIRST so why not?

[RoboChair]

I like well designed things that serve a function. I like things that look good. You can have both in an aesthetically pleasing package and it's beautiful when done right. It just depends on how you choose to incorporate the two and balance them.



I made this cryptex. Was it a test of my abilities as an engineer and machinist? Absolutely! Was it a test of my ability to design an aesthetically pleasing product within the bounds of material selection and ability? You bet it was! It isn't perfect, but I learned a great deal from making it. If I make others they will be designed better and look nicer. Engineers that design ugly products won't be selling very many of them.

[Ogehsim]

Artists do more than just paint. Many of them create works of art that rely on construction and material properties that engineers are familiar with and use frequently. Think sculptures, think kinetic art. They use welders and power tools and are concerned with structural integrity and Newtonian physics.

Leonardo Davinci designed mechanical contraptions and did art. The skills can be very complimentary. Engineers express their ideas not just through math but by drawing sketches and conceptual illustrations. Engineers are creative and so are artists. Artists often look to question the world and pose those questions to society through their art. Engineers may not like that the questions are not straightforward and often do not have answers (and yes, a lot of art is really dumb, but a lot of engineering is really dumb too, let's face it) but that doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose.

A diversity of viewpoints is critical to coming up with new and novel solutions. We should welcome the inclusion of these new viewpoints. And if "artists" learn a new appreciation for STEM through that process, how does that hurt us? It hurts us more if we act like superior, cliquish snobs, insisting on our own superiority.

Try listening to this episode of the Embedded.fm podcast: http://embedded.fm/episodes/142 It features Sarah Petkus who is a kinetic artist who also works with robots. It's really cool.

Why not encourage that sort of crossing of disciplines rather than denigrating it?