Championships in 2017

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by hutchMN

Champs doesn't feel the same since they have gone to 8 divisions. MSC is already more competitive than Champs. The reason why I'm inspired by FIRST was watching some of the best robots at Champs in 2013 (1114 and 118). FIRST is just diluting the Champs experience. If you have 30 robot points, it's better to make 3 things 10 points than it is to make 6 things 5 points; the same thing applies to Champs.

I feel like a broken record on this point, but it seems like I keep having to say it.

As a team that has been to Champs 4 out of the last 4 years, I think you might be a little biased. 14% of FRC teams went to Champs this year. If you had your way, it'd be 9.5%. I'm guessing about half of them are regulars at champs. So in a 4 year span, maybe 25% of FRC gets to 1Champs. Which means that the competitiveness and truthiness of Champs is probably fairly irrelevant to something like 75% of FRC. And it only gets more irrelevant as the program grows in the future, especially as we move to districts and the random elements of wildcards and 2nd picks are eliminated. At some point it's going to turn into a huge expensive party for pretty much the same people every year. If PayneTrain worries about sponsors shelling out $15K to send a team to an "expo", I worry about sponsors shelling out millions of dollars to reach the same people every year. At some point you'd have to wonder about switching to a 2 or 4 year schedule to save money.

Also, I remember way back when Champs admission was changed from a free-for-all to a qualifying system. I'm pretty sure the howls of outrage are louder now only because there's like 5 times as many teams.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by GearsOfFury

Yes it's unknown. To grow, we must adapt. We must reach more students, and quickly. While a single world championship is certainly inspiring and a very worthy aspiration, does the lack of one stop millions of high school students every year from striving for and being inspired by their state sports championship? Does knowing that you are "only" class 4A champ vs. class 6A champ, or "only" Illinois champ vs. Indiana or US champ, so significantly impact students' and coaches' drive to participate, succeed, and win that we can't go on?

An important difference that FIRST has failed to address: other HS championships have clear distinctions among schools or levels which are easy for participants and outsiders to understand. The Champs/Super Regionals don't have any such distinction--it's just a division of the world into 2 with some fuzziness that's unclear.

I posted extensively last year on why we lose a lot of inspiration with the split. It undermines Kamen's original insight that sports attracts kids attention because it builds up heros that they follow. We will lose our heros by not bringing them together.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I feel like a broken record on this point, but it seems like I keep having to say it.

As a team that has been to Champs 4 out of the last 4 years, I think you might be a little biased. 14% of FRC teams went to Champs this year. If you had your way, it'd be 9.5%. I'm guessing about half of them are regulars at champs. So in a 4 year span, maybe 25% of FRC gets to 1Champs. Which means that the competitiveness and truthiness of Champs is probably fairly irrelevant to something like 75% of FRC. And it only gets more irrelevant as the program grows in the future, especially as we move to districts and the random elements of wildcards and 2nd picks are eliminated. At some point it's going to turn into a huge expensive party for pretty much the same people every year. If PayneTrain worries about sponsors shelling out $15K to send a team to an "expo", I worry about sponsors shelling out millions of dollars to reach the same people every year. At some point you'd have to wonder about switching to a 2 or 4 year schedule to save money.

Also, I remember way back when Champs admission was changed from a free-for-all to a qualifying system. I'm pretty sure the howls of outrage are louder now only because there's like 5 times as many teams.

I understand the need to expand to 2 events to add teams. However FIRST HQ ignored several suggestions on how to distribute teams so as to create a single championship. That's where the the real problem is.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by mAYple

I am somewhat scared of how the Detroit and Houston Championships will be conducted, and how the competition will change now that two world champions will be awarded and jazz. The feeling I got from researching on reddit is that now no one will have a true championship experience?

Not sure if this has been talked about recently so sorry if this is rehashing anything from previous threads.

***St. Louis and Houston

I predict both events will be exciting, fun, and inspirational.

I suggest taking what you read on Reddit with a huge grain of salt.

I predict some folks will be unhappy because the new approach will be different from what they wish for, but being unhappy won't be required. Instead it will be a choice.

If you get a chance to attend either, I recommend choosing to focus on what is in "the glass", and not letting anyone else you in advance that you won't enjoy the event. I'm thinking both glass(es) will be more than half-full.

Deal?

Blake

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

I understand the need to expand to 2 events to add teams. However FIRST HQ ignored several suggestions on how to distribute teams so as to create a single championship. That's where the the real problem is.

I've never been able to see how the super regional to 1Champs proposal addresses the concerns that 2Champs dilutes the field and inspiration. If 2Champs = 2 Super Regionals, then tacking 1Champs on the end of the Super Regionals seems like spending a boatload of cash, plus another week of time and school to extra super inspire an ever dwindling percentage of FRC teams. And, again, probably largely the same teams year in and out. If you're only talking about a barebones, competition only 1Champs strictly to determine who is King Of FRC for the season, then sure. Otherwise it seems like money that could be spent better elsewhere.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by scooty199

My thing with a televised event, while it would be awesome is that for 8 teams on 2 alliances, playing a max of 3 matches that are 150 seconds each... that's just under 8 minutes of total action. How much stuff would you have to jam in there for a made for TV event?

You ever watch American football?

Make it a best-of-5, throw in some filler content (interviews, b-roll, replays/analysis of the last match), and factor in commercial time. I think it could stand on its own.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Make it a best-of-5, throw in some filler content (interviews, b-roll, replays/analysis of the last match), and factor in commercial time.

Recognize the Chairman's Award winner both Chairman's Award winners and play their video both of their videos in its their entirety. Please.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

Recognize the Chairman's Award winner both Chairman's Award winners and play their video both of their videos in its their entirety. Please.

This.

[nickyflash]

Even though coming from a team that has never been to champs, I was disappointed learning about the Champs split. I have planned, if we ever go to Champs before I graduate, to get to know some of the teams across the world I follow and admire in person. Unfortunately that won't work out.

[Gimli]

[DRow]

Originally Posted by Gimli

[Monochron]

I haven't seen it confirmed in other threads about the split, but, do we know yet if divisional qualifiers will be played in the arena or in the pits like it was years ago?

If we are talking about a "Championship Experience" I think that playing your matches in bleachers in the pits will be the biggest departure.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I haven't seen it confirmed in other threads about the split, but, do we know yet if divisional qualifiers will be played in the arena or in the pits like it was years ago?

If we are talking about a "Championship Experience" I think that playing your matches in bleachers in the pits will be the biggest departure.

From other threads on the topic, both events are supposed to have all fields in the pits, and use the domes only for opening / closing ceremonies and Einstein. It's possible plans have changed since then, but this information was included with the initial announcement.

I find it funny that they did this split in the interest of giving more teams the "Championship Experience", while at the same time watering the experience down significantly.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Monochron

I haven't seen it confirmed in other threads about the split, but, do we know yet if divisional qualifiers will be played in the arena or in the pits like it was years ago?

If we are talking about a "Championship Experience" I think that playing your matches in bleachers in the pits will be the biggest departure.

The Houston event is going to be in a Convention Center. Basically a giant room for each division which will be like it's own regional most likely. Having the pits, practice field and bleachers for seating, in each room would be the most logical setup. So basically eight different events going on in different rooms all at once.
Einstein is happening at Minute Maid Park.
The St. Louis event will still be in the dome.
The Detroit event will also be in a Convention Center with their Einstein happening at Ford Field.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The Houston event is going to be in a Convention Center. Basically a giant room for each division which will be like it's own regional most likely. Having the pits, practice field and bleachers for seating, in each room would be the most logical setup. So basically eight different events going on in different rooms all at once.

Expecting different rooms seems way too optimistic. I see no reason why it won't be identical to 2011, except with 6 pit fields instead of 2.