Political Issues within Team

[11robo11]

Hey CD,

Our team has been facing many problems with inter-personal relations between mentors and students. A majority of students feel that mentors have been making contradictory/confusing statements, getting too involved in the design process, a general lack of respect, and even been making hostile remarks and accusations.

How do other teams manage the balance between mentors and students? For example, how are decisions made when a majority of students disagree with a mentor? or how do students make mentors aware of issues that they are facing?

Thanks

[Bryce Clegg]

Does your team have any student leadership? As our team's captain, one of my main jobs is to bridge that gap between the students and mentors. Also, respect isn't something that just occurs overnight. It takes time to build respect between mentors and students, but it can go away in one night. If there is a respect between students and mentors, then they should start to compromise with you on decisions.

[StephenKohnle53]

In my team (5556) we have a member who does not respect our mentors. I recommend you try to get all sides to the argument to talk it out using a T-chart to compare and decide on the issue. If that does not work we usually go by vote. With some things we let the student do what ever it is that may be wrong after warning him, so that he learns from his mistake.

[Jon Stratis]

We handle it all through the team handbook - there's a list of student expectations (13 of them) and a list of mentor expectations (9 of them) included, and really those expectations define the interaction between the students and mentors.

So for the students, we expect them to be prompt, follow the dress code, take the initiative, try new things, follow gracious professionalism, etc. Mentors need to share their expertise, let the students do the majority of the work, equitably treat all students, help the students achieve the goals of the team, etc.

Ultimately, if there are any behavioral issues (with either a student OR a mentor), we have two faculty advisers working with the team that can address the issue appropriately.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by 11robo11

Hey CD,

Our team has been facing many problems with inter-personal relations between mentors and students. A majority of students feel that mentors have been making contradictory/confusing statements, getting too involved in the design process, a general lack of respect, and even been making hostile remarks and accusations.

How do other teams manage the balance between mentors and students? For example, how are decisions made when a majority of students disagree with a mentor? or how do students make mentors aware of issues that they are facing?

Thanks

I don't think you're asking the right question for your problem. While the question you asked has a variety of "correct" answers, these are highly dependent on the team culture, resources, people, etc. involved and don't necessarily transfer well from team to team. What works for my team doesn't work for your team, which doesn't work for Big Famous Team X, etc.

It's also kind of clear what you're looking to find, from the tone of your posts - you would like responses which disagree with what the mentors are doing, asking of them to behave differently, etc. so you can cite these posts as examples in debate or discussion. I'm not pointing this out to say you are necessarily in the wrong, just that we're only getting your side of the story here, and an abridged one at that. (This isn't meant to be an invitation to share more specific details)

I think the right question to ask is how your group of concerned students can set up a respectful dialogue with the team leadership where you all discuss the way in which you would like the team to run, the problems each of you have with the status quo, and what the over-arching philosophy of the team is. If you give both students and mentors a chance to share their perspectives on this, neither group will end up with exactly what they want, but you may be able to find common ground and to establish some fundamental principles of which your team's operation is based on.

Definitely do this before the season if you can. Find someone who can moderate discussion without a strong stake in one "side", and give individuals the chance to speak and share without interruption or accusation. Try and hash this out.

[tjwolter]

In any group of people there will always be potential for conflict. Maybe a bit less when they have similar interests and goals. Maybe a bit more when they are under time and performance pressure.

One thing did catch my eye in the leading post. Mentors getting too involved in the design process. Was the issue that the mentors and students envisioned an entirely different machine? If so, I would vote with the students. Talk it over a long time, identify strengths and weaknesses, make it happen. I have been involved in student robotics programs long before I got pulled into the gravity well of FIRST and have seen some truely outrageous student concepts stun me by working much, much better than they had any business doing. OTOH, if the issue is not what will be built but how to get there, the mentors might have the better points...so long as they can be made and taken respectfully. I have also seen way too much magical thinking among robotics newbies. You can't wave your hands and create effective power transmission...it is not The Force at work, but Newtonian Forces.

We are a rather new team, second year, but I have been working with some of these students from middle school on up. Misunderstandings happen. We try to avoid them and to mitigate them when they do happen.

T. Wolter

[rpaulsen]

Are these teacher/coaches, or professionals volunteering their time as a mentor?

If they are teachers, your executive board may want to ask them to sit down as a small group to talk about your concerns. Be sure to thank them for their time because most teachers get paid very little to coach these teams, and teaching is a lot of work. Focus your conversation on the idea that you feel like things are getting in the way of your learning and that you would enjoy a more discovery based way of learning about robotics rather than teacher driven. Most teachers should respond to this in a thoughtful way.

If it is professionals volunteering their time, then the best way to address the situation is through your teacher/coach. Your teacher/coach should really be the person in charge of all adults involved with the team in general. Sit down with your teacher/coach and explain your concerns about the mentors. Your teacher can then go to the mentor in a way that is respectful but serious.

Overall, it is amazing when people whether teachers or mentors with professional backgrounds volunteer their time, but the goal of FIRST is for the students to learn these STEM skills. The adult members have to remember that this is the primary goal.

[tjf]

I can't offer a solution, that's really up to you. However, I can reflect on the difference in culture as a student versus a mentor.

As a student, you look to the mentors for help, to fill in roles that other students refuse to, and to help prop the team up. However, as a mentor, you find yourself acting as a guide rather than the hand on the bot itself. The job of a mentor isn't to fix the bot yourself, or to seek the fundraising, it's to help your students arrive at the conclusion that they can do that themselves.

On 1257, the majority of decisions were made by students when it was reasonable to do so (eg. students didn't book plane tickets to CMP). However, when the student leadership made a decision, the mentors would likely voice their concerns, but ultimately support their decision.

The first step (in my eyes) you can take to un-involving your mentors from the team's leadership is making sure they know that they're overly involved. Teachers love to teach, and what might be viewed as interference could simply be each one of them doing their best to teach something they may not have a perspective of.

For example, if the mentors want to help the students brainstorm design ideas, that's okay on 1257. The line is drawn for mentors making an ultimate decision that hurts the team (eg: if they were to tell students to focus on a high-goal autonomous shooter if we didn't have a working drivetrain.) Ultimately, I'm very thankful that 1257's mentors understand to take a sidestep and allow students to run their course and complete FIRST's mission. To inspire science and technology.

I wish you the best of luck.

[RoboChair]

I have no specific advise for you on this matter, but I do have something to say.

Remember that we are all just people. Both you as students and them as mentors, we are all human. Humans are fantastic at communicating poorly and misinterpreting things. Just because it seems like there is a barrier between you does not always mean it's there.

Have you tried just talking with your mentors as another human being to understand their actions and convey your point of view honestly and respectfully?

[Pooja Anil]

Make sure to check students behaviors too. A lot of times, we don't want to listen, or take helpful advice from our mentors. When we hear something we don't like or agree with, we might say that they are too involved or are being rude, even if they aren't. If both the mentors and the students must work together peacefully, trust must come from both sides. I get that the students may have a valid point with the mentors becoming too involved, but make sure the students are being respectful at the same time.