Inter-District Play in 2017

[Theseusgoats]

Originally Posted by marshall

Seeing a pattern yet?

Hey I'm just not trying to offend either the IN or the MI teams here.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

Hey I'm just not trying to offend either the IN or the MI teams here.

Ok, fine. Let's switch out MI and IN for MAR and VA... and as we all know, I'm willing to offend everyone. Here is my version of your statement:

Obviously, this is theoretical as it assumes that MAR teams are somehow going to be head and shoulders above all the VA teams at the event.

Yep, pattern is this same. This is nonsense and conjecture and not based on any math, statistics, or actual analysis of the situation.

From my perspective, out of district teams are not likely to exert a considerable force of change on the order. From my admittedly limited knowledge of modeling, systems tend to drift toward equilibrium and given the relative ranking of teams in a district, the force of an out of district team or teams acting on the system is not going to change the ranking of the top teams in the district. It's going to end up the same regardless given that out of district teams cannot play in the DCMP for that district so the relative ranking of teams within the district remains.

I'll happily yield this point if you or someone can show me something more concrete than "maybe/probably/somehow/in theory" it could happen.

EDIT: And I really hope for the sake of this community that most people don't see it as "outside teams come in and rob the proper placed teams of their rightful place in a district" because if they do then FRC is about to become very isolated. In the past few months I've been reminded twice by people in the FRC community that I respect a lot that our worlds have gotten smaller (While trying to organize a multi-state workshop for FRC teams no less). No longer will teams from NC compete regularly against teams from VA and SC.... and that makes me sad and at least a few other people seem to be sad about it too. If we contribute to this isolationist attitude by thinking that somehow outsider teams coming in makes our own teams less competitive then we're headed for some dark times in FRC. We need to be welcoming of these outside teams, not pooping on them because #MFGA and #BuildADistrictWall sounds good.

[Taylor]

As a supporter of Indiana robot builders, I'd like to say the following about interdistrict play in 2017:

Bring it.
I ain't skeerd.

[BoilerMentor]

Originally Posted by Taylor

As a supporter of Indiana robot builders, I'd like to say the following about interdistrict play in 2017:

Bring it.
I ain't skeerd.

I'd like to echo this sentiment, both as an FRC mentor for 1747 and as an accessory to the planning committee of the Tippecanoe district both last season and for this upcoming season. The Michigan teams that attended our event last year were a pleasure to work with and great competitors. We welcome our brothers and sisters in FIRST from the north.

If you're worried about Michigan teams coming down to Indiana to hurt your chances, that may say more about you or your team than it does about the teams coming down. Good luck this season!

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

But the same can be said of your team as well can't it? I mean, for the most part, teams that do extra events for practice are usually strong competitors, meaning that they will tend to do well. If somehow the top 8 are all MI teams, then you can't get as many points and neither can anyone else at the competition. This gives them a disadvantage in comparison to teams who don't attend the event if they do end up being able to rank highly. Obviously, this is theoretical as it assumes that MI teams are somehow going to be head and shoulders above all the IN teams at the event.

The bolded phrase is the key phrase.

Obviously you always want your team to perform well. But that doesn't change when you're facing a Michigan team or an Indiana team. You want to win the matches you're in. You want to seed high. Etc.

What changes between an in-district and an out-of-district is that points "disappear" when earned by an out-of-district team. It's beneficial for your ranking efforts if every point you fail to earn ends up disappearing, rather than going into the ranking of one of your in-district opponents.

Think of it this way. Say your team in ranked 5th at your event. If you're ranked 5th at your event and the 4 teams ahead of you are from Indiana, you take the 5th most standing points away from the event. If you're ranked 5th, and the 4 teams ahead of you are from Michigan, you take the most standing points away from the event. The total points you receive is the same in each scenario, but the latter scenario results in 4 fewer Indiana opponents gaining a lead on you in the district standings.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

I'd like to echo this sentiment [....] We welcome our brothers and sisters in FIRST from the north.

Sentiment Thirded.
I can't WAIT to see our InF teams play against FiM teams!

Points can't be stolen because points must be earned.

If you didn't earn those points against a Michigan team, then it's not the Michigan's team fault for beating your team. It's your team's fault for not EARNING them. There aren't participation medals in FRC anymore.

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

Hey I'm just not trying to offend either the IN or the MI teams here.

So, who are you? What team are you associated with? Why do you not have these things listed in your CD profile?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

So, who are you? What team are you associated with? Why do you not have these things listed in your CD profile?

Uh, why do they need to have a team listed?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Uh, why do they need to have a team listed?

IDK I'm pretty proud of my team, I assume others feel the same.
Also I'm pretty proud of myself and my FRC accomplishments, and I don't feel the need to hide behind an anonymous account.
But to each his own.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Uh, why do they need to have a team listed?

They don't. It's not a requirement. Maybe they aren't even associated with any team. Who knows?

This person has been very vocal lately, and I personally believe that accountability by saying who you are can lead to more thoughtful posts on Chief Delphi.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Taylor

IDK I'm pretty proud of my team, I assume others feel the same.
Also I'm pretty proud of myself and my FRC accomplishments, and I don't feel the need to hide behind an anonymous account.
But to each his own.

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

They don't. It's not a requirement. Maybe they aren't even associated with any team. Who knows?

This person has been very vocal lately, and I personally believe that accountability by saying who you are can lead to more thoughtful posts on Chief Delphi.

Eh, some folks like their privacy. I can respect that. I don't think calling them out on that is really a great idea.


Plus, everyone knows who I am and many would claim my posts aren't "thoughtful"

[346CADmen]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

The bolded phrase is the key phrase.

Think of it this way. Say your team in ranked 5th at your event. If you're ranked 5th at your event and the 4 teams ahead of you are from Indiana, you take the 5th most standing points away from the event. If you're ranked 5th, and the 4 teams ahead of you are from Michigan, you take the most standing points away from the event. The total points you receive is the same in each scenario, but the latter scenario results in 4 fewer Indiana opponents gaining a lead on you in the district standings.

Conversely, at another event w/ only district teams, 4 teams gain more points than you.

Not sure the system is flawed, but then again?? If you’re the best team from your district at a district event, it might be a bit tough to see another district team gain more points being the 3rd best at a different event.

[MikLast]

Looking at the PNW, there looks to be no teams coming to any PNW events, more likely than not because of the cost, as most of the other districts are in the Midwest/East Coast and the sheer cost of travel...

it would be nice if we had more districts out here, or if we just take Idaho...

[efoote868]

In the future, I think it would be neat to have districts setup with overhead for more inter-district play, I.E. we'll allocate an extra 10-20% for empty spots in a competition with the expectation that other districts do the same. Maybe an extra week 1 event?

I have no idea how that could work or the type of horse trading required, it also assumes teams in the district wanting 3rd plays are sated. Maybe teams signing up for their 3rd event between districts could trade events?

Just a thought.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by efoote868

In the future, I think it would be neat to have districts setup with overhead for more inter-district play, I.E. we'll allocate an extra 10-20% for empty spots in a competition with the expectation that other districts do the same. Maybe an extra week 1 event?

I have no idea how that could work or the type of horse trading required, it also assumes teams in the district wanting 3rd plays are sated. Maybe teams signing up for their 3rd event between districts could trade events?

Just a thought.

In MI, that would mean putting on 3 to 5 more EVENTS to get a 10-20% vacancy rate. Not gonna happen.

[NicusTM]

Originally Posted by MikLast

Looking at the PNW, there looks to be no teams coming to any PNW events, more likely than not because of the cost, as most of the other districts are in the Midwest/East Coast and the sheer cost of travel...

it would be nice if we had more districts out here, or if we just take Idaho...

...and western MT