[FRC BLOG] This isn't a Robot, Housing, and Throwing Things

[Eric Scheuing]

Originally Posted by Rick

Maybe mentors can step up, set a good example, and make sure their team isn't doing it.

That's what I was saying though. There's really not another way to enforce the rule, but as Ed said:

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

(just saying it's bad and should be team enforced is a limp-wristed approach).

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

- talk with teammates about cool matches you seen

- discuss upcoming matches and make predictions

- reflect on what your team could have done to make it to Einstein

- plan out dinner for the evening

- play games on phone

- bet on whether will.i.am will be allowed in the building...



The list goes on.

Huge +1. I sat and watched all of Einstein this year and I was never once bored.

[Andrew_L]

Originally Posted by frcguy

Huge +1. I sat and watched all of Einstein this year and I was never once bored.

You obviously didn't have to sit through Einstein 2015.

[dradel]

It is all enforceable if mentors would be mentors and take responsibility for their team members. Now I am not saying that all mentors don't take responsibility but we have all seen it first hand, where either the mentor/s are either oblivious to what is going on around them, or they just don't think it is their job to monitor the students. I can tell you with absolute certainty that stuff like that won't fly on the team I am a part of.

[Siri]

Several of these predictions are taking me back to the practical question, which is: why do people break these on-paper "stand rules"? This isn't theoretical; we have hard evidence to consider here, if only to demarcate the reasons why it won't apply. (Or my preference, propose ways to ensure it doesn't.)

There is at least one such "stand rule" that's been on the books for well over a decade. We know that ubiquitous self-enforcement of it does not work. We know that peer enforcement does not stop violations. We certainly know that writing it down doesn't end it--I can find this as early as 2003, when the Admin Manual said: "Teams are not allowed to save seating space." This had its own Table of Contents line under GP, one of only 4 topics to do so. It is a longstanding, official, publicized, well-known rule. So far as I know, it was not tacitly much less actively encouraged in the past. Others try to enforce it on these grounds, and yet endemic violations have been routinely bemoaned for over a decade.

This is not to say there wouldn't be more seat saving without these measures--certainly there would be--or that nothing has ever improved the problem. And there are many differences between saving seats and paper airplanes. Tons of differences (some inhibiting and some facilitating); I'm not arguing that. Nor do I wish to shoot down predictions. But I would argue that if, like anything, we find ourselves predicting a new behavior that contradicts longstanding actions on a related one, we at least acknowledge as much and examine theories as to the difference. We're a lot more likely to develop a successful implementation plan for this if we contend with that reality. As much as I'd like to just say that this is a good step, the last thing I want to do is waste the first Champs where this on the books by establishing that the practiced norms don't change much even when it's on the books.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by dradel

I can tell you with absolute certainty that stuff like that won't fly on the team I am a part of.

Pun intended?

At our Vex IQ tournaments, we remind coaches that they are responsible for their students. This should go without saying for FRC as well, but might be worth making explicit. Is this communicated to FRC teams currently?

Let's just keep reminding teams about not throwing planes, and let the "tradition" die out over the next few years.

-Mike

[dradel]

Lol, happy accident.

[jnicho15]

What is really wrong with seat saving? Does the general population of Chief not care about teams being unable to sit together when pit crews have to sit on the opposite side of the stands if they have to stay in the pits between division elims and Einstein packing up while the stands fill (and their team waits)? Or is the real problem with large swaths of the stands being roped off by a team when only a few members are there?

[bdaroz]

I would take issue with 5 students saving 10 seats each across 5 rows, especially if they are actively preventing people from sitting.

At the same time I have no problem if 5 students are sitting and holding a seat or two next to them, especially if they tell you someone will be coming back, but welcome you to use it until they do.

Both are technically against the rules, but one is far more reasonable, and shows some Gracious Professionalism.

[dradel]

Originally Posted by Ari423

Frank: Target acquired. Section 227, Row 4, Seat 18. Take him out.

*laser pointer appears on teenager's forehead*





Maybe we can ask 254, 971, 1114, and 118 to team up and write a program that can tell where a paper airplane was thrown from based on where it landed. Or we can put big fans between the stadium seats and the fields pointed away so any paper airplanes get pushed back into the crowds.

Laser pointers are against the rules 😝

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dradel

Laser pointers are against the rules 😝

Not robot-mounted Class 1 laser pointers that are NOT intended to interfere with drive team vision...

[Roger]

Guess this guy isn't going to be invited cool machine though...

Especially combined with this other guy's 30 planes per second launcher -- whoosh!