FIRST Festival of Champions

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

The same thing that happens when FIRST makes an earnest effort to address concerns presented, people will complain on Chief Delphi about the things not being perfect.

While you get points for such an edgy post, it's an honest question that Ryan asked. He's not playing Chicken Little, he's just alluding to the charade that FIRST is pulling again with punting vague news about short-term paradigm-shifting events out into the open right before cornerstone events in the season calendar. I'm for it. FIRST wrecked the Corvette and tried to replace it with some Honda Civics that definitely had some ricers with the title at one point. After seeing that some didn't think that was a fair trade, they threw in a Camaro. Not the same, but just try to focus on the same bumblebee yellow and ignore the fact that you can't see out of the back unless you have x-ray vision.

The split announcement in 2015 came right around the height of competition season between weeks 6 and 7. The split designations, if I recall correctly, came in right before 2016 Champs. Now, the announcement about a new, additional event is coming right before 2017 kickoff. Sooner or later it comes off as less coincidental and more overt. It's PR 101; take out the trash and dump news you don't like at a time where it's opportune for the constituency to forget about it (S1E13 of The West Wing uses this in its title).

I don't necessarily blame them for trying to sate the inmates of this asylum, but in the famous words: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me Twice.... Won't get fooled again. I expect some key questions to be answered and I hope solutions to some legitimate issues are developed for the good of the program, but don't let the Chicken Littles of this thread allow some key, legitimate concerns to be ignored.

[aspiece]

Originally Posted by Cory

But...let's be real. You're dramatically oversimplifying things. The progression you've laid out here is not correct. This event isn't "champs". It's a cool expo of half champions vs half champions.

So, would it be different if it was nationally televised on prime time television? I guess I think of another exhibition robotics event I am familiar with that crowns a "champion". I might be misinformed here.....

Overall, regardless of what it is called. The community will consider this the crowning of a champion and I would support such an assertion.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Billfred

They have three months to press for an exception, or train up a new driver with whatever they have on hand.

As for the whole "knowing your opponent for three months" thing: It does invite an opportunity for teams to be cutting promos on one another (within the bounds of good fun and Gracious Professionalism, of course) that I hope these teams take. Truly great feuds--whether in sport, in business, or anywhere--are born just as much out of lore and off-field exchanges as they are action on the field. What made Ric Flair a legend of the squared circle? Steve Spurrier, on the gridiron? Both were tremendously talented at their chosen profession, but they also always had something to say about their next opponent to draw interest.

I feel like you gotta go with the American Dream

[Basel A]

Reserving judgement for a moment, I'm curious as to how they'll handle the fact that this is 3 months after the two Championships. Do they allow teams to continue making robot changes, potentially having final matches with completely different robots? Or are the robots to be kept in bags (nevermind that this would suck, plus the teams would just use practise bots at home).

It reminds me a bit of college football, where teams are used to playing every week (with an occasional bye week), then for the bowl games they have a full month to prepare for one opponent. The better coached, better prepared team tends to win (in the regular season, talent plays a bigger role). If anything, this is more extreme.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents. Although I get how some people would be mollified by this, it doesn't make me any happier. My problem with 2Champs was never the part where we don't have a world champion alliance crowned. It was the part where half the championship teams go to one place, and the other half goes to a different place (which obviously isn't going to be solved).

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Reserving judgement for a moment, I'm curious as to how they'll handle the fact that this is 3 months after the two Championships. Do they allow teams to continue making robot changes, potentially having final matches with completely different robots? Or are the robots to be kept in bags (nevermind that this would suck, plus the teams would just use practise bots at home).

Agreed...

Known unknown issues: Handling of robots post-2Champs (bag 'em, "confiscate" 'em, or unrestricted use of 'em), transport of teams and/or robots to NH (particularly if international), alternates if 1+ teams can't make it, and the whole "3-month gap".


What I think FIRST failed to see in the first place is that bringing more teams to the "Championship Experience" is not the same as bringing the "Championship Experience" to more teams...
And that like it or not, the vehicle they chose to use for culture change is a COMPETITION and there was no clear winner (which clear winner you'd expect to see from a COMPETITION). Their failure to properly account for that is what is essentially forcing them to deal with a method for finding a single clear winner, and THAT is causing some interesting discussion.


That being said, it will be very interesting to see which route they go for the Festival. If properly hyped up, and teams participate like they mean it, it could do wonders for promotion of FIRST (and STEM). But if something goes wrong--the brighter the spotlight, the easier it is to fail--including if one or more teams declines to attend and no replacement is found, then what you end up with is a big mess.

[GeeTwo]

So anyway, what do you call the field upon which the champions compete? Zwei Steine?

[tjf]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

So anyway, what do you call the field upon which the champions compete? Zwei Steine?

The Einstein-Rosen Field of course!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

So anyway, what do you call the field upon which the champions compete? Zwei Steine?

Copernicus or Kepler would work. Work that changed just about everything humans thought they knew about how the solar system worked...

But maybe Brahe (Tycho Brahe) would work better.

[cadandcookies]

As someone who is not affiliated with an FRC team this year, much less one of the select few that one might guess at having a high chance at going to this event, I can't wait. Might grab some friends to watch the matches and reminisce.

Lots of details still up in the air but I can't imagine what a fantastic experience it will be for the students on those teams that will be in attendance. Especially for those third picks that might not necessarily be perennial powerhouses.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by aspiece

So, would it be different if it was nationally televised on prime time television? I guess I think of another exhibition robotics event I am familiar with that crowns a "champion". I might be misinformed here.....

Overall, regardless of what it is called. The community will consider this the crowning of a champion and I would support such an assertion.

No, nothing about this could be considered equivalent to Jon's comparison. Half champs are basically super regionals right now. in a regional-super regional-champs progression, super regional performance would qualify hundreds (unsure what FIRST's plan was, I would assume 200-400 teams) for a "true" championship. This is going to be 8 teams. Some of those 8 may not even be the winners of each half champs. Some may be the winners in name only, if they have new drive teams or cannot maintain their robots/practice between half champs and the festival of champions.

I don't take offense to the notion that this is a solution to no actual overall winning alliance, I just think it's disingenuous for Jon to suggest people are being pedantic and that this is the same as what we'd have if we got the original super regional-champs progression FIRST put forward years ago.

I would personally not consider this crowning a true champion. For me that definition would require something like all Einstein teams (ideally division finalists too) from each half champs meeting and playing quals/elims to determine a champion.

Realistically that's not going to happen and it's kind of awkward to in effect have two super regionals that are called "Championships" and marketed as being no different than they were before and then both the winners (and some losers) progress to another event that's actually the real championship where you end up with different World Champions than were champions at their respective "Championships".

That being said I'm certainly more excited about this, even with whatever flaws it may have, than just having 2 half champs winning alliances and ending there.

[David Lame]

This is a tough crowd.


I, for one, think it's awesome. I was very glad to read the announcement.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by David Lame

This is a tough crowd.


I, for one, think it's awesome. I was very glad to read the announcement.

I think this most recent announcement is just another reminder of the finality of #2champs, which many community members have been unhappy with for almost two years. Cory summed it up pretty well, its better than nothing...

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

man, I guess we can never be satisfied can we?

Would it be CD if it was any different?

[Aidan Cox]

Can't say I'm surprised at the amount of salt on this thread, just another day on Chief Drama.

With #2Champs being a solidified thing, this Festival sounds like a step in the right direction. Perfect solution? Maybe not, but it's not an event I can roast like the Thanksgiving turkey before it has even happened. Can't argue with how it might interfere with teams' IRI plans though. Interested to see what other details will be released in the upcoming months.

Also happy to see an event of this scale take place here in NH. Home of HQ, Manchester really hasn't had anything to attract FIRSTers from other areas since GSR stopped.

Stay positive folks, we have a whole season to get through first.

[EmileH]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

I could point to three possible venues.

1.) SNHU Arena, downtown Manchester (I thought it was still called the Verizon Wireless Arena too, thanks Google): for the reasons stated above. It's a solid hockey arena that could arguably hold the most visitors. Website doesn't have any events posted during that time, and it will be long past the arena's main summer use: graduations.

2.) SNHU Fieldhouse (Also known as the Kickoff Venue): Smaller, but has good flow between auxiliary gym and main gym. Could definitely handle the team count, arguably lacking on comfortable seating as it's mostly bleachers. Has a solid VIP space and parking. Could be already booked for sports and summer classes.

3.) Memorial High School: If you want to go #OGFRC, there's only one venue. Has basically the same pros and cons as the SNHU Fieldhouse, but it also lacking a solid VIP area and parking for the crowd size. But, RiverRage has run just fine there for many years.

My gut says SNHU arena, but my heart wants Memorial.

Nothing against Memorial, but I think after winning the Championship, teams would want a bit of a bigger stage to perform on with higher production value than a high school.