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Unread 07-01-2017, 15:06
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by Joe G. View Post
Two subtle changes to the rules that have huge impact, and the potential to really hurt some teams if they're not careful.
This is immediately what I thought of as well. The last 4 seasons have had very different bumper and frame perimeter rules - FIRST and the GDC should highlight this subtle (but major) change as much as they can over the next 10 days or so.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 15:29
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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R22. ROBOTS are required to use BUMPERS to protect all outside corners of the FRAME
PERIMETER. For adequate protection, at least 6 in. (~16 cm) of BUMPER must be placed on
each side of each outside corner (see Figure 8-1). If a FRAME PERIMETER side is shorter than
6 in. (~16 cm)
This is reduced from 2016's 8 inches.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 16:11
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

This seems to defeat the purpose of bumpers, at least how they've been used the past few years, doesn't it?

They used to guarantee about 6 inches of distance between "internal components" of robots. With this game, everything will always be inside the frame perimeter, but the grace distance that the bumpers used to provide doesn't exist. Teams will have to be careful to either build robustly, or be well inside the bumpers.

Bumpers may or not actually provide any protection.

This makes the real volume less than the stated volume.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 16:17
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by Harshizzle View Post
This seems to defeat the purpose of bumpers, at least how they've been used the past few years, doesn't it?

They used to guarantee about 6 inches of distance between "internal components" of robots. With this game, everything will always be inside the frame perimeter, but the grace distance that the bumpers used to provide doesn't exist. Teams will have to be careful to either build robustly, or be well inside the bumpers.

Bumpers may or not actually provide any protection.

This makes the real volume less than the stated volume.
I'm not sure I see your point...
At the start of the match all parts of the robot except the bumpers must be within the frame perimeter (which does not include the bumpers) as typical in FRC. The grace distance is still there. The only things that are vulnerable are frame perimeter extensions that deploy after the match starts as usual.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 16:45
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by mman1506 View Post
I'm not sure I see your point...
At the start of the match all parts of the robot except the bumpers must be within the frame perimeter (which does not include the bumpers) as typical in FRC. The grace distance is still there. The only things that are vulnerable are frame perimeter extensions that deploy after the match starts as usual.
Oh whoops, I feel silly, I misread the rules on it.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 17:57
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

I'm afraid there's going to be several teams unable to compete at their event because they show up with bumpers outside the sizing box and have no way of cutting 5-6" both directions. Glad I'm not the LRI that has to tell them that.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 18:02
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

Not sure if this is the right place but would these bumpers be legal?

http://imgur.com/aK9ofzy

The gap is 13 inches but there will be a beam above the bumpers connecting the two sides so that the frame is technically all closed.

edit the two shorter sides are both 6 inches.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 18:09
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by juju_beans View Post
Not sure if this is the right place but would these bumpers be legal?

http://imgur.com/aK9ofzy

The gap is 13 inches but there will be a beam above the bumpers connecting the two sides so that the frame is technically all closed.

edit the two shorter sides are both 6 inches.
That would not be legal because the frame perimeter is measured as a convex polygon wrapping around the robot, so the two pieces pointing inward would not be considered bumpers.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 18:10
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju_beans View Post
Not sure if this is the right place but would these bumpers be legal?

http://imgur.com/aK9ofzy

The gap is 13 inches but there will be a beam above the bumpers connecting the two sides so that the frame is technically all closed.

edit the two shorter sides are both 6 inches.
Before I answer...
What is your Frame Perimeter? Read R01, particularly the blue box. Now read R22, including the blue box, and R29G. I'll explain in the spoiler, but I'd like you to read those rules first.



Spoiler for The Answer:
Your frame perimeter is a convex polygon formed by the outside corners of your robot, per R01. R22 says that you have to have 6" of bumper on each side of each corner of the frame perimeter, and R29G says that bumpers have to be mounted to the frame perimeter. The portion of the pictured bumpers inside the points are not protecting 6" of frame perimeter, and they aren't mounted to it. The robot portrayed has a rectangular frame perimeter, and the bumpers aren't going to be legal like that.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 18:51
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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R23. BUMPERS must be located entirely within the BUMPER ZONE, which is the volume contained between the floor and a virtual horizontal plane 7 in. (~17 cm) above the floor in reference to the ROBOT standing normally on a flat floor.
New this year,the top of the bumpers is 7" this year (think bumpers end up 5.5-6.5" tall with fabric. My memory says last year the bumper zone was 5-12" off the ground.
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Unread 07-01-2017, 23:22
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by Steven Carmain View Post
New this year,the top of the bumpers is 7" this year (think bumpers end up 5.5-6.5" tall with fabric. My memory says last year the bumper zone was 5-12" off the ground.
Yes, last year's was the highest bumper zone since our rookie year (2012), and this year is the lowest since then. Fortunately, there are no scoring platforms or defenses or anything but flat carpet to drive over.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 00:30
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

A frame perimeter of 23" x 25" seems tiny! Any ideas of how to make the most of vertical space?
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Unread 08-01-2017, 17:04
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by Munchskull View Post
A frame perimeter of 23" x 25" seems tiny! Any ideas of how to make the most of vertical space?
We kept to a 24" x 26" perimeter last season while staying short enough for the low bar, so it is doable. We did strictly defenses but our arm for defense manipulation cut through 13" of our 26" frame, and there was room for a ball manipulator we were working to try to add at our regional.

Mounting all the large electronics vertically and grouping by power and control sections is how we freed up most of our space. RoboRio, radio, signal light, and VRM went on one side of the bot, battery, PDP, and main breaker went on the other. All were mounted on vertical boards from the chassis bottom to our top frame rails, so 7"-8" of space.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 00:52
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

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Originally Posted by Steven Carmain View Post
New this year,the top of the bumpers is 7" this year (think bumpers end up 5.5-6.5" tall with fabric. My memory says last year the bumper zone was 5-12" off the ground.
That was mostly because robots had to be built tall to get over obstacles. Bumper zone is a rule that changes a lot year to year.
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Unread 08-01-2017, 01:58
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Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know

When I first read the rule with the green background, it made no mention of bumpers.

However upon further searching I found this:

R03
Maximum ROBOT size, including BUMPERS and all extensions, must be constrained to one of two volumes: ...

I'm with Blake on this issue and think it needs to be explained by FIRST as its hard to believe they really want us to build small robots with a frame perimeter of 120 inches.

Dave
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