Velcro on rope?

[mrnoble]

Using loop Velcro as the rope seems like such a viable hack that it wouldn't surprise me at all for the GDC to rule it illegal, just because it breaks the endgame. We will wait and see.

[Kellen Hill]

I am confused. Some people seem to think that putting a loop in a rope and using a hook to attach to it is somehow different than using hundreds of hooks to attach to hundreds of loops using Velcro.

And to suggest that Velcro isn't "twisted, tied, woven, or braided together" is just ridiculous. If not by one of those methods, how do you think it's held together?

The only issues I see with Velcro would be any inclusion of adhesive on the Velcro and how you would go about attaching it the end of your rope. Picking the right Velcro to use and being able to "twist, tie, weave, or braid" it to the rest of your rope are the things to watch out for.

In my mind, if you disallow the general use of Velcro for climbing, you also disallow putting a hook into a loop to then climb.

[carpedav000]

Remember, if you want to use hook-end vecro as your rop material you can cut a length of it into strips and braid the strips together, therefore making it a perfectly legal rope.

[Joe Johnson]

What does FIRST want to accomplish with the "end game" feature of their game design? Who can say for sure but I can guess that it is exciting finishes to matches.

In what way does an easily implemented solution to the problem damage this goal?

FIRST was about as open and they could possibly have been regarding the defintion of "ROPE". I think A) this is perfectly within the rules and B) FIRST will be delighted if 90% of teams are off the ground at the end of matches.

Bottom line: I will be extremely surprised if FIRST makes this illegal.

Callin' 'em as I sees 'em.

Dr. Joe J.

[Jcarbon]

We've found a lot of success with fraying the end of a rope and rubbing it to make it frizzy and fluffy. Then we put velcro on the roller and it sticks really well. This is a little less questionable than using velcro as the rope.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by Kellen Hill

And to suggest that Velcro isn't "twisted, tied, woven, or braided together" is just ridiculous. If not by one of those methods, how do you think it's held together?

The only issues I see with Velcro would be any inclusion of adhesive on the Velcro and how you would go about attaching it the end of your rope. Picking the right Velcro to use and being able to "twist, tie, weave, or braid" it to the rest of your rope are the things to watch out for.

Is stitching with thread (to attach non-adhesive velcro to another similar strap) not just a kind of "tying" using a different flexible fiber?

[Kellen Hill]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

Is stitching with thread (to attach non-adhesive velcro to another similar strap) not just a kind of "tying" using a different flexible fiber?

Exactly. That would be entirely legal from my perspective. You just need to make sure you attach it via a legal method instead of using zip ties, adhesive, or some other non-legal method.

[tig567899]

...which may be whipped, fused, covered in heat shrink or tape... to prevent fraying.

If I'm using velcro tape to prevent fraying, and there's no substitute, then... that's in the rules... My robot just happened to attach to that velcro and then pull itself up.

[Ari423]

Originally Posted by tig567899

If I'm using velcro tape to prevent fraying, and there's no substitute, then... that's in the rules... My robot just happened to attach to that velcro and then pull itself up.

True...unless the GDC posts an update disallowing the anti-fraying method from helping you climb. Not saying whether they will or they won't, just be on the look out for that update if you choose to go this route.

[Cal578]

Originally Posted by Kellen Hill

I am confused. Some people seem to think that putting a loop in a rope and using a hook to attach to it is somehow different than using hundreds of hooks to attach to hundreds of loops using Velcro.

And to suggest that Velcro isn't "twisted, tied, woven, or braided together" is just ridiculous. If not by one of those methods, how do you think it's held together?

The only issues I see with Velcro would be any inclusion of adhesive on the Velcro and how you would go about attaching it the end of your rope. Picking the right Velcro to use and being able to "twist, tie, weave, or braid" it to the rest of your rope are the things to watch out for.

In my mind, if you disallow the general use of Velcro for climbing, you also disallow putting a hook into a loop to then climb.

I have a concern about equating ROPE (per Game Manual definition) and Velcro.

Originally Posted by Rule I04-D

consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven, or braided together except for the last 4 in. (~10 cm) of each end which may be whipped, fused, covered in heat shrink or tape, or dipped in a coating material to prevent fraying.

(bolding mine)

Most Velcro has a plastic backing, and at least the hooks (and often the loops) are made of plastic. I think plastic will not be accepted as a "fiber". If your Velcro "rope" has plastic in it throughout the entire length, I do not think it will be accepted.

[riley.jean23]

Originally Posted by ollien

Are you saying you want the velcro from your robot to attach to the rope, or you want velcro to be a part of your rope?

I would hazard a guess and say yes to the former, and no to the latter. I would not consider velcro to be "twisted, tied, woven, or braided together," as I04 mandates.

Couldn't you just weave velcro into a rope?

[Kellen Hill]

Originally Posted by Cal578

I have a concern about equating ROPE (per Game Manual definition) and Velcro.

(bolding mine)

Most Velcro has a plastic backing, and at least the hooks (and often the loops) are made of plastic. I think plastic will not be accepted as a "fiber". If your Velcro "rope" has plastic in it throughout the entire length, I do not think it will be accepted.

Fiber: "a thread or filament from which a vegetable tissue, mineral substance, or textile is formed."

I see no reason why plastic would not meet this definition.

Also, if you plan on ruling out plastic, you would also rule out quite a few chord and rope options in addition to Velcro.

[angelah]

Velcro only has a plastic backing when it is intended to stick on. This is the kind most robotics folks are more familiar with. Most Velcro doesn't, though, because it is intended to be sewn on.

Ropes made of plastic are pretty common. I'm pretty sure one of the ropes in the picture in the game manual could be plastic even.

I will be interested to see how they clarify this in the Q&A. They may outlaw Velcro, but I think they will have to add language to the rule to do so.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by Jcarbon

We've found a lot of success with fraying the end of a rope and rubbing it to make it frizzy and fluffy. Then we put velcro on the roller and it sticks really well. This is a little less questionable than using velcro as the rope.

As long as your frizzy and fluffy part doesn't exceed the 1" diameter.

[jnicho15]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

As long as your frizzy and fluffy part doesn't exceed the 1" diameter.

What if that frizziness also happens to be over a knot?