Do fans count as motors?

[Matt178]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but do fans/air movers count as motors?
It's not an issue of motor count, more an question of "is this motor allowed"
If my team decides to go for an air driven shooter I'm wondering if something like a 12V blower (not on the approved motor list obviously) counts as a motor or as just another 12V component like a light or a sensor.

Thank you in advance!

[engunneer]

that's a motor. R32 is very specific for legal things that turn electricity into movement. Also beware G28 if you are making an air shooter!

[Cothron Theiss]

Short answer: yes. Your 12V blower would not be permitted for use on the robot.

Long answer: It is not a motor on the approved motor list. So for it to be legal, it has to be one of the exceptions listed in R32.
It's not a hard drive fan that is part of a legal motor controller or is a KoP part. It's not a factory installed vibration and autofocus motor in a COTS computing device. It's not a PWM COTS servo with a retail cost of less that $75. It's not a motor integral to a COTS sensor.
So it's not an approved motor and it doesn't not meet the criteria for any of the exceptions in R32. Therefore, it is not legal.


Also, I'm honestly not sure if the very idea of an air powered shooter is legal either. There's another thread where that's being discussed.

[ctt956]

G28. Don’t use air to direct/redirect FUEL. ROBOTS may not use forced air to affect the movement of FUEL that is outside the volume of the ROBOT.
Violation: RED CARD.

I think air-powered shooters are legal, but only if the airflow current doesn't go outside of the robot volume. So if the air launches fuel, and pushes it in midair, it is no longer legal. However, that could be hard to determine, so I wouldn't risk it.

[asid61]

On a similar note, multiple teams have used CPU fans to cool down air pumps in the past (especially the smaller VIAR series with the low duty cycle). Is this granted an exception in the rules?

*Mainly a question for previous years as well, because my interpretation pins it as illegal.

[Cothron Theiss]

Originally Posted by asid61

On a similar note, multiple teams have used CPU fans to cool down air pumps in the past (especially the smaller VIAR series with the low duty cycle). Is this granted an exception in the rules?

*Mainly a question for previous years as well, because my interpretation pins it as illegal.

I don't see why it'd be illegal. Any fan that comes in the KoP or is distributed via FIRST Choice is legal, regardless of the actual use.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by asid61

On a similar note, multiple teams have used CPU fans to cool down air pumps in the past (especially the smaller VIAR series with the low duty cycle). Is this granted an exception in the rules?

*Mainly a question for previous years as well, because my interpretation pins it as illegal.

I suggest you read R32 closely.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I suggest you read R32 closely.

That's the rule that's always been in contention for me:
"Hard drive motors or fans that are: included in any Kickoff Kit, distributed via FIRST Choice, part of a legal motor controller (including manufacturer provided accessories), or part of a legal COTS computing device"

Does this mean any fan part of a computer is legal for use outside the computer, or legal for use only when it is integral to the device?
Kit and FIRST Choice fans seem to be legal in all cases, but many teams buy extra fans (sometimes for reduced noise).

[FrankJ]

KOP computer fans are legal by rule. Integral motors that are part of allowed COTs devices are legal only as long as they are installed in the COTs device. IE once you take the motor out of the hard drive it is no longer legal.

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by asid61

That's the rule that's always been in contention for me:
"Hard drive motors or fans that are: included in any Kickoff Kit, distributed via FIRST Choice, part of a legal motor controller (including manufacturer provided accessories), or part of a legal COTS computing device"

Does this mean any fan part of a computer is legal for use outside the computer, or legal for use only when it is integral to the device?
Kit and FIRST Choice fans seem to be legal in all cases, but many teams buy extra fans (sometimes for reduced noise).

in the past (standard disclaimer), once the fan is removed from the legal COTS computing device is no longer legal as it is not in the inclusion list in R32. (it only allows that fan as long as it is still part of the COTS computing device)

Kit and FIRST Choice fans are legal in all cases. Spare fans (i.e. quieter ones) that are not kit or first choice are not legal.

R32 does not specify the usage of the fans, just the source.

[Jon Stratis]

Kit and first choice are legal for any use (according to the robot rules), other computing fans have to be integral to a COTS computing device used on the robot. You can't just go buy a computer fan and use it without the computer, unless it's one from the KOP or FIRST Choice. The intent is to make computing devices with integral hard drives and fans legal, not to open up additional motors for free use on the robot.