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#31
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Maybe I'm crazy but I actually think the low goal can be useful. With the low goal it's all about quantity, if you can dump a hopper where you catch one side and ground pickup most of the other quickly you can get enough balls for 10 point cycles. That's the same point value as gear cycling for the 3rd rotor (requires 4 gears yielding 10 points per gear). It's not a single strategy to pursue like high goals or a fast gear runner, but it would be a good secondary function for robots that have another function as well. A defensive minded bot could score low in a match when the alliance needs just a few more kPa for the bonus, or a gear bot can cycle balls and gears across the field in one pass to maximize scoring per cycle.
High goal scoring can go toe to toe with gear cycling for max points in a match (gears score 220 in teleop in playoffs ignoring the reserve gear for rotor 1, high goal fuel can score 245 in teleop in playoffs based on the 5 fuel per second processing average). It also offers the highest potential autonomous bonus for a single robot (going to assume no one does 3 gear auto solo). With high goal scoring most teams will have to pick between that and a fast gear runner though, since most teams will not be successful in making their bot capable of scoring both ways at a top tier level. Freudian slip there. |
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#32
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Dr. Joe's 3 "Don't Bother Unless..." Rules For High Efficiency Goal Shooting:
Seriously, it is going to be very hard to make the numbers work our from a cost/benefit point of view. You have to excel at all 3 aspects of this process or your team probably would have been better off making simpler/smaller robot that you finished earlier and got more driver practice and had more time to make those 100s of refinements that add up to huge benefits to your overall performance. I am quite serious. I would bet that for 90% of teams that are going to try to do high efficiency goal shots, they literally could have increased their average scores significantly more by just organizing their pits better and/or focusing on battery management and putting in place preflight check lists/diagnostic software features (e.g. checking for PWM wires that are unplugged). Bottom line, High Efficiency Goal Shooting is going to be a boneyard of time suck for so so many teams. Sorry for the downer post. Dr. Joe J. P.S. Our team was high fiving ourselves when a prototype "Fuel Tank" was able to spit out 2.5 balls per second during a test run. It seemed like a crazy fast stream of balls exiting our test hopper. Then I realized it would take 20 seconds of shooting non stop to empty a single hopper's worth of balls into the High Efficiency Goal. And that it would take 3 such hoppers worth to earn that tantalizing extra RP. How many teams are going to actually pull that off. Many will try. Few will succeed... |
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#33
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
My concern is that there will be decently accurate teams that shoot at about 1 Ball/second processing rate...
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#34
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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Sightlines.... even a bigger deal this year than last year. |
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#35
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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If the boiler plays out like Aim High goals did, this game will be entertaining to watch. The Einstein matches from 2006 with teams filling the high goal so fast that balls were falling out of it (then being caught and re-fired) are some of my all time favorite matches to watch. |
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#36
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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How does one write code to detect a pwm is unplugged? |
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#37
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
I believe there is just one reason to use the low efficiency goal and I don't think it has much to do with the points it scores. So it's probably not worth it. It's just too inefficient as a scoring method. 33% accuracy in the high goal is not that much harder than a low goal mechanism. The frustrating thing is that the low goal dump height is not the same height as the hopper load, so you can't easily use the same mechanism to load the low goal as you use to load alliance partners.
Ball mechanisms seem like they take so much more design effort and space compared to the reward. I see it as something you do opportunistically while focusing on gears - you keep that intake running as you make your back and forth cycles, and eventually your hopper will just so happen to be full, so you can get a few points for that. Balls are also something to do on alliances that have gotten three rotors spinning, but clearly won't get the 4th in time. |
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#38
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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But it would work with some form of feedback... current sensing circuit shows no current, optical encoder detects no ticks etc. Might be useful in the pits, but hardly useful once the robot is on the field. Quote:
![]() Last edited by efoote868 : 19-01-2017 at 13:39. Reason: avoiding a double post |
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#39
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
One way to look at the Boiler is it worth it?
Its the only scoring method that is available all game... with unlimited game pieces In gears you have "pay as you go" at 0 (40/60) 2 (40/60)- 4 (40) -6(40+ RP/100) In climb you have 30 secs to get 50 at endgame Fuel is the only way to continually score all game ...so its a DIFFERENTIATOR and definitely has worth... Simple example Both teams with gears in auto/tele at 120, both alliances climb so far a TIE at 270 who wins? the alliance that scored 1 point with Fuel (1 HE auto, 10 HE tele or 30 LE tele) that is 2 RP. This alone makes potential boiler capability on an alliance worth it. to win those matches 271 to 270 Last edited by Boltman : 19-01-2017 at 13:58. |
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#40
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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But that second sentence is what I was alluding to with the "one reason to score in the low goal". If both goals are processing balls at capacity, that's ten balls per second going into the opponent's ball bin. Shouldn't take too long for that bin to overflow and give your own alliance quick access to some more balls to score with. |
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#41
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Quote:
Quote:
There will be a production possibility curve for each team based on a cycle-time modifier. This determines where teams' resources (time) are best spent. I have attached an example with a 1:1 time spent per point for both gears and fuel. NOTE: The attached graph is only considering teleop playoff point values and may have slight inaccuracies based on how the graph was generated (due to the number of sample points), it also works with the assumption of 108 max points of fuel (including bonuses). Last edited by Skyehawk : 19-01-2017 at 15:17. Reason: clarification |
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#42
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Unless there is a robot on your alliance that owns* the boiler (see my earlier post in this thread), stoking will be everyone's part time job. Grab a few balls at the loading station, visit a hopper while it is being dumped, or sweep the floor on along your way -- just get a little FUEL when you can, and score it to the best of your ability. This will be the win/loss margin when alliances are evenly matched on gears and climbing. Could even get you an extra RP, sometimes.
----------- * Looking at you, teams from Purdue. ![]() Last edited by Richard Wallace : 19-01-2017 at 16:03. Reason: Adverb. |
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#43
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Quote:
Westside Boiler Invasion Harrison Boiler Robotics Maverick Boiler Robotics |
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#44
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
Boiler UP! I might have to get some new Purdue gear this year.
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#45
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Re: Is the Boiler worth it?
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You can count 75 balls in 15 seconds of autonomous and 675 in teleop. But this raises another question, is it 5/second for each boiler or combined? If the answer is combined then for max score you'd only do the high goal with gives a theroetical of 75 * 1 + 675 * 1/3 = 300 kPa (or points) . If the answer is each then your alliance does both and you theoreticallyy could get an additional 100 kPa for a total of 400 kPa (or points). |
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