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View Poll Results: Will your team be climbing this year?
Yes 290 93.85%
No 19 6.15%
Voters: 309. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-01-2017, 12:42
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Re: Climbing or No?

Any rookie team out there.

I would focus 100% on figuring out how to climb. Then delivering gears.

I put it in that order because as long as the rule does not change limiting the pilot on lifting a gear from a robot, you basically just need a good mail slot with no moving parts.

You can have a robot finished in the first half of the build season then spend the second half trying to figure out how to drive (More rounds are lost to bad drivers than you can imagine!!!) <--- I can not make the parentheses statement bold enough to get that across.

You can play with a fuel scooper/thrower if you want, but this should be absolutely last priority since it introduces a lot more parts to break/go wrong and veteran teams can smoke this task for you.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 13:54
T8PineappleSam T8PineappleSam is offline
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Re: Climbing or No?

It seems that nearly everyone (197 of 206 currently) is responding that they will be climbing.

Last year a similar poll (https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=143735) had above a 60% yes response rate to climbing the tower but the end scaling rate didn't even hit 6%. This was taking into the account the easier access that year to scaling designs through Ri3D and COTS components.

While I agree that endgame is more valuable this year than last, I would be very surprised if overall climbing rate this year surpasses 20%. I imagine that a lot of teams will run out of time to complete climbing devices or find it too difficult and opt to focus more on gear and goal scoring.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 14:00
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Re: Climbing or No?

Bold Prediction - Only 10% of FRC robots this year will actually be able to consistently climb.

I think a lot of teams are really underestimating the difficulty of climbing this year.

There is a good reason its worth so many points.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 19:32
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields View Post
Any rookie team out there.

I would focus 100% on figuring out how to climb. Then delivering gears.
I agree. As long as you can run decent defense and climb, you will probably get onto an alliance at a district event. Personally, our team plans on focusing on gears, with climbing as a secondary to work on as our drivers begin practice.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 19:56
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
Bold Prediction - Only 10% of FRC robots this year will actually be able to consistently climb.

I think a lot of teams are really underestimating the difficulty of climbing this year.

There is a good reason its worth so many points.
Yep. If climbing is not your top priority, above gears or fuel, then odds are high you will have a successful climb rate well below 50%.

There are no past games with good reapplies to climb a rope, and one of the volume configurations actively makes climbing more difficult.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 20:02
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T8PineappleSam View Post
It seems that nearly everyone (197 of 206 currently) is responding that they will be climbing.

Last year a similar poll (https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=143735) had above a 60% yes response rate to climbing the tower but the end scaling rate didn't even hit 6%. This was taking into the account the easier access that year to scaling designs through Ri3D and COTS components.

While I agree that endgame is more valuable this year than last, I would be very surprised if overall climbing rate this year surpasses 20%. I imagine that a lot of teams will run out of time to complete climbing devices or find it too difficult and opt to focus more on gear and goal scoring.
Agree with this. Remember that a significant portion of the teams who respond to CD polls are in the upper tiers of FRC (and then you get multiple responses from the same teams often). A large number of teams will simply look at the idea of climbing a rope and immediately discard it.

I do not think lacking a climber will cut you out of the playoffs at the regional/DCMP level. However, I do think that having a climber will make your odds of playing in elims at any level dramatically higher.
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Unread 11-01-2017, 23:14
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut View Post
Yep. If climbing is not your top priority, above gears or fuel, then odds are high you will have a successful climb rate well below 50%.

There are no past games with good reapplies to climb a rope, and one of the volume configurations actively makes climbing more difficult.
If there are a significant % of teams that don't have climbing as a given than Steamworks is going to be really sad to watch
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Unread 11-01-2017, 23:49
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Re: Climbing or No?

the teams that don't play with fuel are going to be kind of boring to watch, too. This game should be all about little balls flying everywhere! too bad those points are hard to get
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Unread 12-01-2017, 00:17
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by throwaway View Post
If there are a significant % of teams that don't have climbing as a given than Steamworks is going to be really sad to watch
I actually think it can be quite exciting with the balls flying around, as MrForbes mentioned. A lot of teams couldn't attempt a pyramid climb above the first level in 2013, but I don't think that really detracted from the game.

We'll see how it plays out, since everything is speculation at this point. If nobody ever climbs it will be disappointing, but I think the same for if everyone ignores fuel too, then we'll just have 2 minutes of robots running into each other trying to move around a game piece we can't see well from the stands.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 03:38
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Re: Climbing or No?

Undefendable points in a game that will almost certainly feature brutal defense? Sign me up!
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Unread 12-01-2017, 09:14
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Re: Climbing or No?

I'm honestly astonished how many people think climbing is just a given.
I'd love every robot on my alliance to have a climb, and I agree that it's definitely easier to climb than shoot this year- but there will be robots in eliminations without climbs, even at the championship. If you think climbing is so easy, build 20 climbers and bring 20 ropes and strap them to every alliance partner you can find.
Climbing is worth quite a bit, and it's a relatively easy task, but I wouldn't blame any team for valuing it below other tasks that more directly contribute to ranking points.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 09:22
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Re: Climbing or No?

If you are a team that can accomplish exactly one game task other than driving, I honestly think there is a strong argument for making that task climbing. (I mean, ideally a passive human loaded gear mechanism too, but if you had to pick just one...)

If you're the kind of team that can't afford to both climb and score gears, maybe the Top 8 isn't for you anyway? To get a ranking point consistently, you either need a strong high goal shooter (with auton) or an alliance full of competent gear scorers every match. If strong quick shooting is out of your reach, like it is for many teams, it's okay to not focus on seeding #1 as your main way to win an event.
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Unread 12-01-2017, 09:26
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForbes View Post
This game should be all about little balls flying everywhere!
Sadly, I believe this game will, to a great extent, be about little balls flying everywhere...
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Unread 12-01-2017, 09:32
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Unhappy Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anushad View Post
After the finite amount of gear and auto points are scored, climbing could be a big determiner of winners of matches, especially at district/DCMP level.
Ah to be a district team...
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Unread 12-01-2017, 09:37
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Re: Climbing or No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields View Post
Any rookie team out there.

I would focus 100% on figuring out how to climb. Then delivering gears.

I put it in that order because as long as the rule does not change limiting the pilot on lifting a gear from a robot, you basically just need a good mail slot with no moving parts.

You can have a robot finished in the first half of the build season then spend the second half trying to figure out how to drive (More rounds are lost to bad drivers than you can imagine!!!) <--- I can not make the parentheses statement bold enough to get that across.

You can play with a fuel scooper/thrower if you want, but this should be absolutely last priority since it introduces a lot more parts to break/go wrong and veteran teams can smoke this task for you.
This is very good advice. As a rookie team, go for simplicity. If you can climb and play defense, you can easily win a regional or district event as a 3rd pick.
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