Honest opinion on 2017 drivetrains

[kyle_hamblett]

Considering the "open field" nature of this game, tank will definitely be most effective. It also seems that historically speaking, tank has been the most successful style of drive train year after year.

[Sperkowsky]

In my opinion a well executed swerve drive will be king this year.

After that we have tank.

H Drive and Mecanum Drive trains wont be bad until eliminations where they will be completely wrecked by defenders. Good luck trying to align for anything with a robot pushing yours around.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

H Drive and Mecanum Drive trains wont be bad until eliminations where they will be completely wrecked by defenders. Good luck trying to align for anything with a robot pushing yours around.

Wouldn't that happen to a swerve drive too?

[gerthworm]

Originally Posted by Karibou

Wouldn't that happen to a swerve drive too?

For a well designed swerve drive, it should have similar traction to a tank drive, but you can point that traction in any direction you want. Combined with the high off-axis coefficient of friction of non-omni wheels, it's much harder to push a swerve drive around.


For a poorly designed swerve drive, high unexpected lateral loads will simply break it.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

H Drive and Mecanum Drive trains wont be bad until eliminations where they will be completely wrecked by defenders. Good luck trying to align for anything with a robot pushing yours around.

Enjoy all those penalties for hitting people in their protected zones....

[IronicDeadBird]

I think I'm stuck with simple drivetrains this year. Space on the robot feels more valuable, field doesn't have much in terms of obstacles.
Dunno maybe 6 - 8 wheel tanks, possibly skid steer...

[Ekcrbe]

You can always say that a well-executed swerve drive by a team that knows both how to build it and how to get the most out of it with programming could be the most effective. That being said, the most effective drivetrain is often the one your team can drive the best and gets you where you want to go despite your opposition. The drivetrain you can drive best is the one you can practice with the most, and getting where you want to go usually means having good traction, either to run through defense or to play it.

[aside]
Yes, we can debate about whether mecanum/holonomic allows you to juke out your defenders, making traction irrelevant, but suffice it to say that finding this level of skill and control in a driver and robot, if it exists, is rare.
[/aside]

There are a select few teams that have the capacity to build a complex drivetrain fast and train their drivers to a high degree of skill with it, but for everyone else, stick to a 4/6/8-wheel skid steer and it will be the most effective for you. To fulfill Andrew's definitions, a skid steer will be the most effective drivetrain choice for most teams, and as such it will be the most successful drivetrain on aggregate across FRC.

[Darkseer54]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

Enjoy all those penalties for hitting people in their protected zones....

The only protected zone is the receiving zone...

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Darkseer54

The only protected zone is the receiving zone...

True, but he didn't say where he was going to hit them. And if I'm in my key up against the boiler and they're hitting me they are more likely to get a 5 second penalty rule.

Smart defense is going to be played in the middle of the field, where there is close to 0 chance of getting a penalty. In the middle of the field, it doesn't matter what your drive is if you know how to drive smart.

That said there are only a few drives I would do this year and standard west-coast is at the top of that list.

[Poseidon5817]

A well-executed swerve will be the most effective this year. With an open field layout, but some areas where maneuvering is essential, not to mention its ability to resist being pushed by rotating the wheels against defense, it should be great. Steamworks is essentially swerve heaven.

That being said, many teams will be trying swerve for the first time this year, and from experience, that scares me. To new teams doing swerve: please use the resources available to you to succeed at its design and programming: I don't want to see any other teams sitting still in most of their matches or twitching and burning holes in the carpet, like we and other teams have done. Also, feel free to shoot me a PM if you need any other help.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

A well-executed swerve will be the most effective this year.

Most teams attempting swerve will not be well-executed.

I would be surpised if something other than 6 wheel drives to be the majority of drive trains. And since most perennial powerhouses are vehemently opposed to purely holonomic drive trains (mecanum, kiwi, omni), that leaves tank and swerve, with a smidgen of butterfly.

I'm guessing > 75% of robots on Einsteins will have 6 wheel drive.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by kyle_hamblett

Considering the "open field" nature of this game, tank will definitely be most effective. It also seems that historically speaking, tank has been the most successful style of drive train year after year.

Well know you're mixing words.

Effective and Successful are not the same thing in this context and can't be used interchangeably.

Please clarify - when you say tank will be the most successful do you mean that you expect more winning robots to be tank drive? Or do you mean they will be more effective at achieving game objectives than any other style of drive train?

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Well know you're mixing words.

Effective and Successful are not the same thing in this context and can't be used interchangeably.

Please clarify - when you say tank will be the most successful do you mean that you expect more winning robots to be tank drive? Or do you mean they will be more effective at achieving game objectives than any other style of drive train?

As an example, Kyle's post was effective in enabling Andrew to successfully point out the difference between "effective" and "successful".

[6401mark]

I don't see any need for tank treads because there is nothing to drive over, and being able to strafe seems unnecessary as well. We will use the KOP drive base, but honestly I think it's good enough for this year