Go to Post Thinking (or the lack of it) will be our downfall. - sirbleedsalot [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 10:41
BumblingBuilder's Avatar
BumblingBuilder BumblingBuilder is offline
Red is fast
AKA: Matthew
FRC #2169 (KING TeC)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 62
BumblingBuilder will become famous soon enough
Re: Gears on the floor?

Also, ground intakes may have a quicker cycle time depending on the driver. If there's a gear on the floor outside of the loading station, the robot does not need to line up correctly with the chute. Instead it can, like a ball, just drive up to the gear laying on the floor. The time efficiency would range depending on drivers, but when you need 12 gears any time saving will help.
__________________
2014: FRC 2169 scouting/spirit, FTC 7897 Mechanical

2015: FRC 2169 Mechanical/CAD

2016: FRC 2169 Mechanical/CAD
2017: FRC 2169 Head of Mechanical
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 10:46
c.shu's Avatar
c.shu c.shu is offline
Alumni/Mechanical/CAD
AKA: Cole Shumaker
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 122
c.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to beholdc.shu is a splendid one to behold
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thorp View Post
Will they get in the way?
Yes. Especially if there are many of them in one area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thorp View Post
Cause robots to get high-centered?
Yes. I foresee a large number of robots with low ground clearance this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thorp View Post
Is it worthwhile to build a device to pick gears off the floor?
Yes. It is almost always worthwhile to have the option to pick up a game piece off the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thorp View Post
This could save a lot of time running back & fourth across the field, but the design would be a major challenge, considering the new robot envelopes rule.
Maybe. With a little creativity I think that the size restrictions can be worked around without too much complexity. You are only saving time if the floor pickup you design is faster than your cycle times. Don't bother picking up off of the floor if it is going to take you half the match to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 11:03
Mark McLeod's Avatar
Mark McLeod Mark McLeod is offline
Just Itinerant
AKA: Hey dad...Father...MARK
FRC #0358 (Robotic Eagles)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hauppauge, Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,926
Mark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
I'm picturing the opponent tries for a gear, drops it. Grabs another, takes off for their lift. You swoop in, kick it out of their loading zone, push it along the floor and finish intaking it outside the zone.
I'm picturing lurking just out of sight behind the airship and swooping in to tag drivers who are preoccupied with the bait gear on the floor
__________________
"Rationality is our distinguishing characteristic - it's what sets us apart from the beasts." - Aristotle
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 12:46
ngreen ngreen is offline
Registered User
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 821
ngreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant future
Re: Gears on the floor?

Gears on the floor could be an alliance strategy, where a great gear handler from the floor gets gears delivered to them by their partners. Of course, once they are on the ground, the opponents can play defense on them but they are harder to clear away than balls and they can only possess one at a time. Getting as many as possible to your side (even on the ground) and having a good pickup and placement mechanism would make it feasible for a single robot to place 12 gears if their partners were delivering them to the launchpad area.

I imagine you'd have 3 gears on robots and the reserve to start. At least one would be scored in auto and any left at the start of teleop would be dumped in the launchpad. Then all 3 robots would go for 3 more gears (and fuel). At that point, the gear handler would have 5 gears to place bringing the total to 7. Repeat this twice more (or 3x with 2 robots) and you'd be at 13.
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 14:07
Boltman Boltman is offline
Registered User
FRC #5137 (Iron Kodiaks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 861
Boltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud of
Re: Gears on the floor?

Keep in mind a good gear floor pickup greatly decreases travel time to acquire a gear and you need 12 for RP. it takes a while with across field vision to even obtain a gear. Would be much better to scoop fallen ones closer up. Plus greatly eases load time no line up needed human just drops gear on floor robot gets.... I think floor pickup of gears is a must due to cycle times for top gear bots considering driver station views, distance, defense and the rest. bots that just have passive gear collection will struggle IMO
__________________

Iron Kodiaks Team #5137 San Marcos, CA

2016 Semi-Finalist | Central Valley Alliance Captain #2
2016 Semi-Finalist | San Diego 2nd bot alliance #8
2015 Semi-Finalist | Ventura 3rd bot alliance #3
2015 Quarter-Finalist| San Diego 2nd bot alliance #5
2014 Rookie All-Star | #21 San Diego | Galileo Division #91

Last edited by Boltman : 12-01-2017 at 14:19.
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 14:47
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,362
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gears on the floor?

FRC Design rule #4 you must be able to pickup your primary scoring object off of the floor.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


2015 Indianapolis District Winner
2014 Boilermaker Regional Industrial Design Award
2013 Smoky Mountain Regional Industrial Design Award
2012 Boilermaker Engineering Excellence Award
2010 Boilermaker Rockwell Innovation in Control Award.
2009 Buckeye J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2009 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2008 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2007 St Louis Regional Winners
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 14:56
NinjaMunkeeNao's Avatar
NinjaMunkeeNao NinjaMunkeeNao is offline
i'll literally do whatever :D
AKA: Naomi Christina Alexander
FRC #2395 (The Ninja Munkees)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 80
NinjaMunkeeNao is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Gears on the floor?

I think having an intake would be great and it'd be helpful for sure. No gears would be wasted! Hard part is picking the gears off the floor and having time to score points everywhere else... I feel like going around picking up dropped gears would take a lot of time if there were a decent amount of them falling throughout the match... maybe that's just me though...
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 15:06
GreyingJay GreyingJay is offline
Robonut
AKA: Mr. Lam
FRC #2706 (Merge Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 785
GreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond reputeGreyingJay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaMunkeeNao View Post
I think having an intake would be great and it'd be helpful for sure. No gears would be wasted! Hard part is picking the gears off the floor and having time to score points everywhere else... I feel like going around picking up dropped gears would take a lot of time if there were a decent amount of them falling throughout the match... maybe that's just me though...
This is the real question.

Most of the designs I've seen so far on Twitter are a basically a funneled cup shape. Once the gear is in, it would take a pretty massive shakeup to drop it.

The two places where you're going to see dropped gears are at the receiving station, and at the lift. I'm not sure you'll see many dropped gears anywhere else.
__________________
"If I'm going to mentor someone, I'm going to be involved in their life as a positive force." -Mechvet
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 15:31
NinjaMunkeeNao's Avatar
NinjaMunkeeNao NinjaMunkeeNao is offline
i'll literally do whatever :D
AKA: Naomi Christina Alexander
FRC #2395 (The Ninja Munkees)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 80
NinjaMunkeeNao is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyingJay View Post
This is the real question.

Most of the designs I've seen so far on Twitter are a basically a funneled cup shape. Once the gear is in, it would take a pretty massive shakeup to drop it.

The two places where you're going to see dropped gears are at the receiving station, and at the lift. I'm not sure you'll see many dropped gears anywhere else.
That's true. The amount's definitely important. Spend time making an intake and gears are rarely dropped on the floor... that wouldn't be good.
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:02
Boltman Boltman is offline
Registered User
FRC #5137 (Iron Kodiaks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 861
Boltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud of
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaMunkeeNao View Post
That's true. The amount's definitely important. Spend time making an intake and gears are rarely dropped on the floor... that wouldn't be good.
Decent floor pickup and your Human Player to drop gears on floor rather than robot having to line up and waste time , so there will be as many gears on the floor as you need you never have to waste time with a line up..its the way to go. Too many gears too little time. More engineering sure, worth it yes.
__________________

Iron Kodiaks Team #5137 San Marcos, CA

2016 Semi-Finalist | Central Valley Alliance Captain #2
2016 Semi-Finalist | San Diego 2nd bot alliance #8
2015 Semi-Finalist | Ventura 3rd bot alliance #3
2015 Quarter-Finalist| San Diego 2nd bot alliance #5
2014 Rookie All-Star | #21 San Diego | Galileo Division #91

Last edited by Boltman : 12-01-2017 at 17:05.
Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:07
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,528
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
FRC Design rule #4 you must be able to pickup your primary scoring object off of the floor.
Better take back that division win from 1503 in 2011, and a good deal of division and championships wins from teams in 2006.
Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:11
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,792
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Better take back that division win from 1503 in 2011, and a good deal of division and championships wins from teams in 2006.
Plus more than half of Einstein 2013...
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:17
mman1506's Avatar
mman1506 mman1506 is offline
Hater of Tiny Molex Connectors
AKA: Marcus Quintilian
no team (WARP7)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 808
mman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gears on the floor?

I don't uderstand the love for picking up gears off the floor in this thread. Unless you have an amazing floor pickup picking up gears from the floor still takes time, maybe less than if you were loading from a loading station but time none the less. I wouldn't be surprised if a well practiced gear scorer was able to to go to the loading station, grab a gear and score it before an average robot could score one picked off the ground next to the airship.

In 2013 two of the world champions had intakes during regional play and removed them for championship even though they were necessary for a fairly common high scoring auton. It's not like ground intakes were undervalued that year either considering there were ultra competitive teams who only had the option of picking up from the ground (2056 notably)
__________________
2014-2015: FRC 865 Warp7 Team Captain
2016: FRC 865 Mentor

2017: Free Agent Mentor, Inspector

Last edited by mman1506 : 12-01-2017 at 17:19.
Reply With Quote
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:31
TroyCDH's Avatar
TroyCDH TroyCDH is offline
Registered User
FRC #2450 (Radierbots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Saint Paul Minnesota
Posts: 31
TroyCDH is on a distinguished road
Re: Gears on the floor?

2450 did some CAD modeling to pick up the gear. I wish the gear had a large chamfer to get a "dustpan" under it while laying flat. Fairly sharp corner on carpet that probably cant be scooped up.

Ideas welcomed.
Reply With Quote
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-01-2017, 17:37
Boltman Boltman is offline
Registered User
FRC #5137 (Iron Kodiaks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 861
Boltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud ofBoltman has much to be proud of
Re: Gears on the floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mman1506 View Post
I don't uderstand the love for picking up gears off the floor in this thread. Unless you have an amazing floor pickup picking up gears from the floor still takes time, maybe less than if you were loading from a loading station but time none the less. I wouldn't be surprised if a well practiced gear scorer was able to to go to the loading station, grab a gear and score it before an average robot could score one picked off the ground next to the airship.

In 2013 two of the world champions had intakes during regional play and removed them for championship even though they were necessary for a fairly common high scoring auton. It's not like ground intakes were undervalued that year either considering there were ultra competitive teams who only had the option of picking up from the ground (2056 notably)
I think you might be underestimating Vision and defense..... going to exact same spot is of course a tendency and you can be if you are very effective at gear collection that tendency will be used against you and slow you down a lot when you need 6...at least with floor the pickup point will be different and you could have several gears laying on floor pretty sure you can chuck the gears out at a high rate forcing them away from the retrieval area and being more unpredictable in picking them up

Only downside (with scoops) I see to floor pickup is trying to no get messed up with balls which will be prevalent
__________________

Iron Kodiaks Team #5137 San Marcos, CA

2016 Semi-Finalist | Central Valley Alliance Captain #2
2016 Semi-Finalist | San Diego 2nd bot alliance #8
2015 Semi-Finalist | Ventura 3rd bot alliance #3
2015 Quarter-Finalist| San Diego 2nd bot alliance #5
2014 Rookie All-Star | #21 San Diego | Galileo Division #91

Last edited by Boltman : 12-01-2017 at 17:45.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi