Velcro on rope?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by arichman1257

Q6, Q21, Q44, Q45, and Q53 all ask about velcro and ropes. They are all unanswered.
I think that, with the rules as they are set now, velcro is a legal thing. But I think that that is subject to change as they may just ban it by creating a no-velcro-on-ropes rule.

Q22 is a "general case" of the velcro-on-rope question. Unless they put out an update that specifically bans velcro as a I04 compliant material, it appears velcro on rope is legal so long as your twist, tie, weave, or braid the velcro into your rope.

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Q22 is a "general case" of the velcro-on-rope question. Unless they put out an update that specifically bans velcro as a I04 compliant material, it appears velcro on rope is legal so long as your twist, tie, weave, or braid the velcro into your rope.

and there are no materials that are not flexible fibers. (no glue!)

[Roboshant]

Q10 about the rope materials was just answered 3 hours ago. The GDC stated "We will not provide rulings on specific designs/materials". Hopefully we get a clarification in TU2, and teams dont have to wait until week 1 to see what a robot inspector decides.....

[Grim Tuesday]

This reminds me a bit of the fiasco in 2011 when people thought it would be cool to launch minibots up the pole with a spring, until it was banned a few updates in. I think the GDC does not like it when people find an aspect of the game they thought would be difficult trivial, but I am struggling to see how they can fix this one simply.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

This reminds me a bit of the fiasco in 2011 when people thought it would be cool to launch minibots up the pole with a spring, until it was banned a few updates in. I think the GDC does not like it when people find an aspect of the game they thought would be difficult trivial, but I am struggling to see how they can fix this one simply.

I think that it's relatively simple.

Is there an aspect of Velcro that is not allowable? (e.g., how are the loops attached to the backing?) Find that, and issue an announcement that that is not allowable, etc.

OR, add in a rule section/blue box that indicates Velcro as not meeting the spec. That's what they did with the pre-placed gears.



Launching minibots was banned in TU#1 (2011). The Noodle Agreement was announced as "in the process of being banned" in TU#1, but the actual implementation of that was released in TU#2 (2015). I believe it was something like TU#16 or TU#17 (or later) that banned stacking robots to start a match back in '07--AFTER that strategy was used to score points, and despite a Q&A on the topic. A fix to 6v0 was released in the update between Week 1 and Week 2 in 2010--and does anybody remember the THURSDAY update in 2014???

The GDC has their ways to put the game towards the way they want it. I suspect that they are having strong internal discussions on two topics: 1) Do we want this in the game? 2) How do we make the answer to #1 fit in the rules/Q&A?. There are a couple of cases in memory where the GDC has changed their answers mid-season, for reasons apparently including not being on the same page. I get the impression they're trying to avoid that...

[Grim Tuesday]

I think the difficulty in banning velcro is that it is literally "hook and loops." How do you ban small hooks and loops without banning big ones?

You are right though Eric, I was mis-remembering the 2011 rule change as being TU2, and they usually do hit the really obvious stuff with TU1. 6v0 is one of the most interesting things that happened in FIRST but at the Week 1 regional I attended (FLR) no one really did it. It would have been interesting to see if it would become taboo as the season went on without a rule change or become the dominant gameplay method. The Q & A this year seems more open to answering specific questions. A few years ago I could imagine them obnoxiously punting all velcro-based questions to LRIs with "we do not rule on specific designs" but because they have been delaying the answer to Q6 this year it seems likely it will get a real answer.

[RoboAlum]

so ive moved around the velcro and planning on more of an approach 71 took with the file card drive train. using a steel wire brush roller and spinning that to grip the rope they cant ban that

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Q22 is a "general case" of the velcro-on-rope question. ...

Q22 Multiple Rope Materials?

Are ropes allowed to be composed of multiple different materials (each of which comply with I04)? If composed of multiple materials, must those materials be twisted/woven/stitched/braided together to satisfy I04-D, or may they be attached together by other methods? If composed of multiple materials, must each material span the entire length of the rope?
asked 2 days ago by FRC 1712 ROPE

Answer
Yes, there are no rules which require a ROPE to be composed of uniform material. Yes, a ROPE must be twisted, tied, woven, or braided, per I04-D. There is no requirement that any component material of a ROPE span the entire length of the ROPE.

emphasis added

Seems like they are making it really easy to add velcro to the end of the rope.

[RoboAlum]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Seems like they are making it really easy to add velcro to the end of the rope.

Well now there is really no reason why a team in eliminations shouldn't be able to climb that being said, I predict to win an event you will need three climbing robots.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

This reminds me a bit of the fiasco in 2011 when people thought it would be cool to launch minibots up the pole with a spring, until it was banned a few updates in. I think the GDC does not like it when people find an aspect of the game they thought would be difficult trivial, but I am struggling to see how they can fix this one simply.

I'm having flashbacks to the welding (and somewhat to the VEX parts) fiasco of that year in particular. I suspect the GDC sees velcro as potentially shaping up to be a welding style "but if you're banning this, aren't you banning this? How can you outlaw this and not this? But wait, you said--" problem. They've learned to tread carefully with Q&As like 22 above.

[BigJ]

I just hope this doesn't turn into a 2012-118 no-ruling-until-the-first-competition situation

[Clayton Yocom]

I've only quickly read it, and haven't had time to fully internalize it, but the new team update only partially answers this question for me.

https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.n...amUpdate02.pdf

[Bruceb]

I dont see where it answers the velcro question at all.

[Grim Tuesday]

Can someone explain to me what "superfusion" means?

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Can someone explain to me what "superfusion" means?

doing something to the rope to fuse the end (to prevent fraying) AND another reason which gives an advantage (fusing in a loop, or other things that help you more then just preventing fraying)