Go to Post there is no such thing as too many offseason competitions. - Berserker [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 18:16
Bkeeneykid's Avatar
Bkeeneykid Bkeeneykid is offline
#wheatcoastneatcoast
AKA: Devin Keeney
FRC #1982 (Cougar Robotics); Season Long Fantasy FIRST (F3)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 354
Bkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud of
[FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Posted on the FRC Blog, Jan 13th, 2017: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...need-answering

Quote:
Questions That Need Answering
Written by Frank Merrick.


As many of you probably know, the official FRC Q&A system is down right now. We're attempting to address a security issue. While we are working very hard on this as a top priority, we can't yet predict when the system will be back up. And, we know you have more questions about rope than have ever been asked in the history of ropes, which is a very long time indeed.* We do have answers ready to go on many of those. We were waiting until Team Update 02 was finished and released before we published those answers, as they are tied together, but at the same time we released the Team Update, we pulled the Q&A system down, so those answers didn't go out.

To help teams through those Q&A system withdrawal pains, we're publishing below a few key questions and what their official answers will be once the system comes back up.



Q6: Velcro usage on a rope. Can a team use Velcro on a rope that they bring to the field? Can they place Velcro above the 4 inches that secures the rope end? Can it be place on the 4 inches that secures the rope?

Answer: Please see Team Update 02. Non-adhesive-backed hook and loop fastener may be part of, or the entirety of, a legal ROPE, provided that the ROPE is entirely made of "flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven, or braided together" per I04 (e.g. something stuck to or wrapped around the outside of the ROPE does not satisfy this requirement unless it's whipping as permitted per I04 part D).



Q45: Does a strip of Velcro count as a ROPE? To expand on Q6, which asks about adding Velcro to a rope: Would a strip of Velcro itself be a valid and legal ROPE? By I04-D, a rope must "consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven or braided together".... (there were more words on this ~sales job~ question, but we omitted them for brevity.)

Answer: There are so many configurations and styles of hook and loop fastener that it would be impossible for us to say that every single one meets the requirements of I04. However, we feel the elements required to meet I04 (with the recent Team Update and the answer to Q6) are pretty clear. If there is some specific element of the definition that concerns you, please rephrase and ask again (once the Q&A system is back up, of course).



Frank

* "Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"
__________________

F4 Network Website Designer

2010-2012: A Whole Buncha FLL Teams; Team Spirit, Gracious Professionalism Award winner
2015-Current: FRC 1982, Captain, Electrical Lead
Beginning FIRST Volunteer

Moderator on the FIRSTwiki
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 18:20
Gravity's Avatar
Gravity Gravity is offline
Invention is for chumps.
AKA: Alex Lederman
FRC #5940 (B.R.E.A.D.)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Burlingame, CA
Posts: 110
Gravity is just really niceGravity is just really niceGravity is just really niceGravity is just really nice
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Well, that pretty much sums it up. Back to prototyping!
__________________
2017: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional/San Francisco Regional)
2016: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional Rookie All-Star and Quarterfinalist, Curie Quarterfinalist)
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 18:38
tjf's Avatar
tjf tjf is offline
FIRST Year, Best Year
AKA: Tim Flynn
FRC #1257 (Parallel Universe)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 136
tjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to beholdtjf is a splendid one to behold
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

"Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"

I have a feeling that 20 years from now, Frank Merrick Jr. is going to look back and go "God, defenses were an awesome but difficult idea, then he let teams bring their own ropes. And THEN THINGS GOT INTERESTING."
__________________

1257 (2016) - Student
1257 (2017) - Business Mentor (up in your business!)
KD2KRT
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 18:41
Bkeeneykid's Avatar
Bkeeneykid Bkeeneykid is offline
#wheatcoastneatcoast
AKA: Devin Keeney
FRC #1982 (Cougar Robotics); Season Long Fantasy FIRST (F3)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 354
Bkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud ofBkeeneykid has much to be proud of
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjf View Post
"Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"

I have a feeling that 20 years from now, Frank Merrick Jr. is going to look back and go "God, defenses were an awesome but difficult idea, then he let teams bring their own ropes. And THEN THINGS GOT INTERESTING."
Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.
__________________

F4 Network Website Designer

2010-2012: A Whole Buncha FLL Teams; Team Spirit, Gracious Professionalism Award winner
2015-Current: FRC 1982, Captain, Electrical Lead
Beginning FIRST Volunteer

Moderator on the FIRSTwiki
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 18:51
MrRoboSteve MrRoboSteve is offline
Mentor
AKA: Steve Peterson
FRC #3081 (Kennedy RoboEagles)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 581
MrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Time to apply for the new volunteer role.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Rope Inspector.PNG
Views:	94
Size:	264.2 KB
ID:	21531
__________________
2016-17 events: 10000 Lakes Regional, Northern Lights Regional, FTC Burnsville Qualifying Tournament

2011 - present · FRC 3081 Kennedy RoboEagles mentor
2013 - present · event volunteer at 10000 Lakes Regional, Northern Lights Regional, North Star Regional, Lake Superior Regional, Minnesota State Tournament, PNW District 4 Glacier Peak, MN FTC, CMP
http://twitter.com/MrRoboSteve · www.linkedin.com/in/speterson
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 19:09
SenorZ's Avatar
SenorZ SenorZ is offline
Physics Teacher
AKA: Tom Zook
FRC #4276 (Surf City Vikings)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Posts: 937
SenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond reputeSenorZ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Wait... spacetime is often referred to as a "fabric", and fabric is woven fibers...

My spacetime rope will allow me to instantly warp to the top.
__________________
2013-present: FRC Team 4276, Surf City Vikings
2011-2012: FRC Team 3677, The Don Bots
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 19:50
mman1506's Avatar
mman1506 mman1506 is offline
Hater of Tiny Molex Connectors
AKA: Marcus Quintilian
no team (WARP7)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 807
mman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond reputemman1506 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

I'm going to say there's a 50% chance of a thread along the lines of "inspectors at [week 1 event] said Velcro was not allowed". The best way to know at the moment that Velcro is legal is that they have not expressly said it was illegal.
__________________
2014-2015: FRC 865 Warp7 Team Captain
2016: FRC 865 Mentor

2017: Free Agent Mentor, Inspector

Last edited by mman1506 : 13-01-2017 at 20:08.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 21:10
efoote868 efoote868 is offline
foote stepped in
AKA: E. Foote
FRC #0868
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 1,421
efoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by mman1506 View Post
I'm going to say there's a 50% chance of a thread along the lines of "inspectors at [week 1 event] said Velcro was not allowed". The best way to know at the moment that Velcro is legal is that they have not expressly said it was illegal.
My guess is it'll be started by a team showing up with this:
__________________

Be Healthy. Never Stop Learning. Say It Like It Is. Own It. Like our values? Flexware Innovation is hiring!. We're looking for Senior Automation, Software, and System Engineers. Check us out!
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 21:58
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is offline
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,731
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

I have to say this is the most boring answer to the question. I'm going to be SO bored of inspecting velcro ropes and velcro winches by the end of practice day.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 22:06
Squillo Squillo is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cynthia Hannah-White
FRC #2465 (Kauaibots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Kauai, Hawaii
Posts: 153
Squillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant futureSquillo has a brilliant future
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 22:11
mrnoble's Avatar
mrnoble mrnoble is offline
teacher/coach
FRC #1339 (Angelbotics)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: denver, co
Posts: 983
mrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

I'm still fairly confident that <50% of teams will have a reliable and working climbing mechanism in competition, Velcro or no. I'm also confident that no team will get past quals without one.

Maybe, to address inspectors' boredom, we could have a new award, given to the team that best addresses the challenge WITHOUT Velcro.
__________________
http://www.angelbotics.com

Remember why you're doing this.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 22:16
Basel A's Avatar
Basel A Basel A is offline
It's pronounced Basl with a soft s
AKA: @BaselThe2nd
FRC #3322 (Eagle Imperium)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 1,935
Basel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond reputeBasel A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squillo View Post
But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.
Yeah, the question wasn't really answered. I suppose people are reading between the lines that if hooks or loops were inherently illegal, we would've been told so? That's not very convincing, though. There's room for this interpretation to be wrong.
__________________
Team 2337 | 2009-2012 | Student
Team 3322 | 2014-Present | College Student
“Be excellent in everything you do and the results will just happen.”
-Paul Copioli
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 22:32
JasdeepSadam JasdeepSadam is offline
Registered User
FRC #2656 (Quasics)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Monroeville, PA
Posts: 10
JasdeepSadam is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

You are my hero for this
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 22:33
JasdeepSadam JasdeepSadam is offline
Registered User
FRC #2656 (Quasics)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Monroeville, PA
Posts: 10
JasdeepSadam is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

[Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.=JasdeepSadam;1630905]You are my hero for this[Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.
]
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2017, 23:22
engunneer's Avatar
engunneer engunneer is offline
Alumni turned Mentor
AKA: Branden Gunn
FRC #4761
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 873
engunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: [FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squillo View Post
But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.
my understanding of this is that loops can be legal (all other rules still apply), but hook can't be legal because they are molded plastic? The hooks themselves aren't fibers woven into the rope, but the loops are.

Edit: this video make it look like the hooks are cut threads of plastic.
__________________
Student FRC23 (1996-1999), Mentor FRC246 (2000), Mentor FRC1318 (2007-2009), Mentor FRC93 (2011), Mentor FRC2151 (2012), Mentor FRC23 (2013), Mentor FRC4761 (2014-2017)
1998 - National Chairman's Award and Woodie Flowers Award (FRC23, Mike Bastoni ) | 2007 - PNW SF (488, 1595) | 2008 - Oregon RCA - Seattle #2 Seed, SF (488, 1696) | 2009 - Oregon #1 Seed, Winners (1983, 2635) - Seattle SF (945, 2865) - Galileo #2 Seed, SF (973, 25) | 2012 Midwest F (111, 71) | 2014 RIDE Winners (78, 125), Inspector - NEU #24, QF (3479, 3958) - NECMP #35 | 2015 Reading #11, SF (1058, 190), Inspector - RIDE #17, QF(4055, 5494), Inspector - NECMP #57 | 2016 Reading #4, SF (133, 4474), DCA, Inspector - Ride #22, SF (1735, 2067), Creativity, Inspector - NECMP #48, RCA - Archimedes

Last edited by engunneer : 13-01-2017 at 23:25.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi