[FRC Blog] Questions That Need Answering

[Bkeeneykid]

Posted on the FRC Blog, Jan 13th, 2017: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...need-answering

Questions That Need Answering
Written by Frank Merrick.


As many of you probably know, the official FRC Q&A system is down right now. We're attempting to address a security issue. While we are working very hard on this as a top priority, we can't yet predict when the system will be back up. And, we know you have more questions about rope than have ever been asked in the history of ropes, which is a very long time indeed.* We do have answers ready to go on many of those. We were waiting until Team Update 02 was finished and released before we published those answers, as they are tied together, but at the same time we released the Team Update, we pulled the Q&A system down, so those answers didn't go out.

To help teams through those Q&A system withdrawal pains, we're publishing below a few key questions and what their official answers will be once the system comes back up.



Q6: Velcro usage on a rope. Can a team use Velcro on a rope that they bring to the field? Can they place Velcro above the 4 inches that secures the rope end? Can it be place on the 4 inches that secures the rope?

Answer: Please see Team Update 02. Non-adhesive-backed hook and loop fastener may be part of, or the entirety of, a legal ROPE, provided that the ROPE is entirely made of "flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven, or braided together" per I04 (e.g. something stuck to or wrapped around the outside of the ROPE does not satisfy this requirement unless it's whipping as permitted per I04 part D).



Q45: Does a strip of Velcro count as a ROPE? To expand on Q6, which asks about adding Velcro to a rope: Would a strip of Velcro itself be a valid and legal ROPE? By I04-D, a rope must "consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven or braided together".... (there were more words on this ~sales job~ question, but we omitted them for brevity.)

Answer: There are so many configurations and styles of hook and loop fastener that it would be impossible for us to say that every single one meets the requirements of I04. However, we feel the elements required to meet I04 (with the recent Team Update and the answer to Q6) are pretty clear. If there is some specific element of the definition that concerns you, please rephrase and ask again (once the Q&A system is back up, of course).



Frank

* "Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"

[Gravity]

Well, that pretty much sums it up. Back to prototyping!

[tjf]

"Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"

I have a feeling that 20 years from now, Frank Merrick Jr. is going to look back and go "God, defenses were an awesome but difficult idea, then he let teams bring their own ropes. And THEN THINGS GOT INTERESTING."

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by tjf

"Hey, let's let the teams bring their own ropes!" is starting to rank up there with "Hey, let's have changeable defenses!"

I have a feeling that 20 years from now, Frank Merrick Jr. is going to look back and go "God, defenses were an awesome but difficult idea, then he let teams bring their own ropes. And THEN THINGS GOT INTERESTING."

Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.

[MrRoboSteve]

Time to apply for the new volunteer role.

[SenorZ]

Wait... spacetime is often referred to as a "fabric", and fabric is woven fibers...

My spacetime rope will allow me to instantly warp to the top.

[mman1506]

I'm going to say there's a 50% chance of a thread along the lines of "inspectors at [week 1 event] said Velcro was not allowed". The best way to know at the moment that Velcro is legal is that they have not expressly said it was illegal.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by mman1506

I'm going to say there's a 50% chance of a thread along the lines of "inspectors at [week 1 event] said Velcro was not allowed". The best way to know at the moment that Velcro is legal is that they have not expressly said it was illegal.

My guess is it'll be started by a team showing up with this:

[Kevin Sevcik]

I have to say this is the most boring answer to the question. I'm going to be SO bored of inspecting velcro ropes and velcro winches by the end of practice day.

[Squillo]

But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.

[mrnoble]

I'm still fairly confident that <50% of teams will have a reliable and working climbing mechanism in competition, Velcro or no. I'm also confident that no team will get past quals without one.

Maybe, to address inspectors' boredom, we could have a new award, given to the team that best addresses the challenge WITHOUT Velcro.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Squillo

But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.

Yeah, the question wasn't really answered. I suppose people are reading between the lines that if hooks or loops were inherently illegal, we would've been told so? That's not very convincing, though. There's room for this interpretation to be wrong.

[JasdeepSadam]

You are my hero for this

[JasdeepSadam]

[Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.=JasdeepSadam;1630905]You are my hero for this[Welcome to the 2018 FIRST Robotics Competition, and the game: Water Game. Teams must bring their own water. Water must consist of a low viscosity and at it's maximum width must not be larger than 12 in.
]

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Squillo

But I STILL don't know if it's legal. My guess would be that the loopy side might be but the hook side might not? Are little plastic hooks "fibers"? Is velcro "twisted, tied, woven or braided"? If fibers are "woven" but also have parts (other fibers, extensions of the fibers) sticking out like pile, do they count as "woven"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Time to get out the microscope, I think. Oy.

my understanding of this is that loops can be legal (all other rules still apply), but hook can't be legal because they are molded plastic? The hooks themselves aren't fibers woven into the rope, but the loops are.

Edit: this video make it look like the hooks are cut threads of plastic.