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Unread 13-01-2017, 14:33
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
There's flywheel shooter spray and pray where you pump out as many balls as you can past a flywheel shooter at a somewhat sustained rate for a few seconds in somewhat the same area.

Then there's "I shoot my entire hopper at once" spray and pray where you fling 50 balls into the air at once and hope that a large portion of them land in the goal funnel.
*Waits to see the 50 ball catapult*
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Unread 13-01-2017, 21:12
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
Once you work that out, you should wind it up to 8 or 9 per stream, just for the video of the midair traffic jam falling back on your robot.
I suspect what whatever we build will be powered to accommodate this, and I promise a video when it happens. Generally we build this type of mechanism with our target to hit peak power on the motor curves when possible. This means generally we have twice the throughput that the system is designed for. Should be a hoot.
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Unread 13-01-2017, 21:41
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

The biggest limitation here is not going to be the accuracy or power of your shooter, but the indexing of the fuel leading up to it. Getting the balls from a bulk storage in the robot to a single file line ready to go into the shooter is not trivial and can easily limit your otherwise perfect robot.
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Unread 13-01-2017, 22:10
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by BeardyMentor View Post
The biggest limitation here is not going to be the accuracy or power of your shooter, but the indexing of the fuel leading up to it. Getting the balls from a bulk storage in the robot to a single file line ready to go into the shooter is not trivial and can easily limit your otherwise perfect robot.
See Simbotics 2009 robot
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Unread 13-01-2017, 22:12
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardyMentor View Post
The biggest limitation here is not going to be the accuracy or power of your shooter, but the indexing of the fuel leading up to it. Getting the balls from a bulk storage in the robot to a single file line ready to go into the shooter is not trivial and can easily limit your otherwise perfect robot.
Why must they be in a single file line?
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Unread 13-01-2017, 22:14
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
Why must they be in a single file line?
I imagine he was thinking of a single wheel shooter similar to almost all the RI3D teams have been using
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Unread 13-01-2017, 22:19
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
Why must they be in a single file line?
Wide wheel shooting is possible but harder to do well. Lots more things to control. It may be easier than indexing single file, but that is what build season is for.
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Unread 13-01-2017, 22:23
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

I wonder if we will see multi stage shooters like the ones used in 2013 return. I could foresee it being more consistent at a high ROF.
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Unread 14-01-2017, 03:31
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by BoilerMentor View Post
I consulted a very, very intelligent aero friend of mine and called in a favor. His model indicates an optimistic 7 bps directly in front of the goal from a single stream shooter. Coincidentally the tube below the funnel will accommodate 3 fuel with 1/4" between game pieces and between game pieces and the wall. I'm seeing something on the order of 18-21 fuel per second in our future potentially. I will go on record as saying that you need some kind of metering ahead of your shooter and that interface will be EXTREMELY critical if you're aiming for this kind of Lunacy™.
The assumption you are making is that all balls are still lined up at the apex. Break that assumption, and things start to get way more interesting
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Unread 14-01-2017, 08:54
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by mman1506 View Post
I wonder if we will see multi stage shooters like the ones used in 2013 return. I could foresee it being more consistent at a high ROF.
A limited version of this might be a good way to control rof. Small sticky wheel just in front of your shooter spinning at a controlled rate. Conveyor system Infront of the rate control wheel can shove balls together at higher speed and provide a consistent stream for the rate control wheel to pay out.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 11:43
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Unread 16-01-2017, 13:25
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

Do you know what this model is exactly? I'd like to show it to my team.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 13:57
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by BeardyMentor View Post
Wide wheel shooting is possible but harder to do well. Lots more things to control. It may be easier than indexing single file, but that is what build season is for.
Why is it harder to do well? Other than spinup time / speed loss (which is a throughput problem not a width problem), I don't necessarily think this is true at all, and it is certainly easier to get a large ball throughput this way.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 14:09
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

My big thing is fitting everything together in a way that emphasizes the priorities in use of space. My old team, FRC 2970, came up with a good design in 2009 for ball throughput from a static hopper. Check us out on TBA for details. My biggest concern isn't so much dump/shooter design, but space and positioning everything else, which is a necessary detail that I feel most teams will need to acknowledge. Considering we can minimize the climb mechanism to around 4 or 5 inches tall at the top of the robot, and we've got around 9 inches on the bottom for drivetrain and intake, and one side has a gear delivery mechanism, how do we optimize the space so that:

- Intake of balls into the on-robot hopper/container is easy
- Output isn't limited by necessary frame space
- We have the power and space for actuators
- We don't lose our balls
- Dumping is consistent and fast

Our priority is not to emphasize use of the top target, so we can use a dumper rather than a powered shooter or turret, but we want to be able to deliver fuel effectively as a backup plan.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 10:07
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Re: Realistic high goal scoring rate

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Originally Posted by AustinSchuh View Post
The assumption you are making is that all balls are still lined up at the apex. Break that assumption, and things start to get way more interesting
Absolutely. This is where the discussion of spin and the possible benefit/cost of trying to exploit the magnus effect began. Looks like we're going to provide an adjustable mechanical bias to test that hypothesis as well, primarily comparing performance in cases where either no spin or forward spin are imparted on the game piece.
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