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Unread 14-01-2017, 14:42
NotVerySwift NotVerySwift is offline
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Angled Bumpers

For our robot, we wanted a ball pickup system for balls on the ground to be added to our ball storage system. We are running it non-stop, so we wanted the whole front end to be an intake. The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake. We were wondering if we could have the front corner bumpers at a 70 degree (or smaller) angle instaed of a right angle. The Rules, as far as we know, don't mention the angle of bumpers, but all the images of bumpers show right angles. We wanted to make it a funnel to go into the intake.
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Unread 14-01-2017, 15:09
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Re: Angled Bumpers

If you wrap a piece of string around your ROBOT and pull it taut, that defines the FRAME PERIMETER that the BUMPERS need to be attached to.

This means the angles of the frame cannot be less than 90 degrees, because you would then have a piece of that tightly pulled string that was flapping in the air without a place to attach a BUMPER.
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Unread 14-01-2017, 15:46
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Re: Angled Bumpers

All corners do not need to be 90 degrees. You must meet - R22.
ROBOTS are required to use BUMPERS to protect all outside corners of the FRAME PERIMETER. For adequate protection, at least 6 in. (~16 cm) of BUMPER must be placed on each side of each outside corner (see Figure 8-1). If a FRAME PERIMETER side is shorter than 6 in. (~16 cm), that entire side must be protected by BUMPER (see Figure 8-2).
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Unread 14-01-2017, 17:06
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Re: Angled Bumpers

I think what you are asking is.

Can we angle the bumper at the opening to the intake to help game elements funnel into the robot / intake system?

I believe this rule answers this scenario.

I am paraphrasing....

R29.
BUMPERS must be constructed as follows .
a) backed by 3/4" robust wood.
&
c)stacked pair of 2.5" pool noodle

Having an angle at the bumper opening will no longer provide the 2.5" of pool noodle required..


Of course keeping in mind all the other bumper rules including those mentioned above.

Good luck this season

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Unread 14-01-2017, 19:10
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
If you wrap a piece of string around your ROBOT and pull it taut, that defines the FRAME PERIMETER that the BUMPERS need to be attached to.

This means the angles of the frame cannot be less than 90 degrees, because you would then have a piece of that tightly pulled string that was flapping in the air without a place to attach a BUMPER.
Someone posted a CAD render on DAY 1 with the configuration mentioned. It's going to be a long year for the inspectors...

A legal configuration for legal bumpers includes the following relevant items:
R22: 6" on either side of a corner in the Frame Perimeter (not necessarily the robot's frame--wrap a rubber band around the frame instead of string, maybe?)
R29G: Secure attachment to Frame Perimeter

Now, the described configuration fails to meet R29G, as it's not on the Frame Perimeter, and fails to meet R22 because it's not protecting the corners of the Frame Perimeter.
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Unread 15-01-2017, 07:58
meaubry meaubry is offline
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Sorry - I was thinking that you meant the entire bumper assembly and not just the foam noodle part of it.
If you are strictly talking about angling the ends of the foam noodles themselves, instead of cutting the foam off relatively square at the end of the bumper - that would violate the 2 1/2" bumper requirement.
The end would be covered by less and less foam as the angle approaches the backing wood, which violates the 2 1/2" of foam requirement.
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Unread 15-01-2017, 11:35
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotVerySwift View Post
The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake.
Yes indeed. Welcome to the 2017 game.
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Unread 15-01-2017, 12:13
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotVerySwift View Post
For our robot, we wanted a ball pickup system for balls on the ground to be added to our ball storage system. We are running it non-stop, so we wanted the whole front end to be an intake. The bumpers get in the way and leave only about 10 inches for the intake. We were wondering if we could have the front corner bumpers at a 70 degree (or smaller) angle instaed of a right angle. The Rules, as far as we know, don't mention the angle of bumpers, but all the images of bumpers show right angles. We wanted to make it a funnel to go into the intake.
Your best bet if you want a full-front intake is to make your robot intentionally short and build an intake that deploys over top of the bumpers to collect balls.
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Unread 15-01-2017, 12:41
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Asked on Q and A: https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/136
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Unread 17-01-2017, 17:18
NotVerySwift NotVerySwift is offline
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Re: Angled Bumpers

I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 18:29
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotVerySwift View Post
I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.
I suggest you reread the rules regarding bumpers and the frame perimeter, then reread GaryVoshol's post, and then watch this video. Note that the video references a 120" frame perimeter limit, which is an old rule and does NOT apply to this year's competition. However, it's a good explanation of the frame perimeter.

The answer to your initial question is no; you cannot have convex faces in your frame perimeter simply by the definition of a frame perimeter by the rules.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 19:10
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Re: Angled Bumpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotVerySwift View Post
I was actually talking about the entire bumper system. We were going to angle the robot frame and the bumper backings to make the balls roll inward.
I would put your odds of getting through inspection that way at about 5%, and your odds of having to be reinspected within a match or two at 99% when someone comments about it.

The big key here is: Frame Perimeter != robot frame. If you look at the attachment, the blue line is your robot frame as described. The red line is your Frame Perimeter. Bumpers are located on, and attach to, the Frame Perimeter.
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Unread 24-01-2017, 22:03
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Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design



We at Team TNT2404 think we can use a concave design. Please check our image link above. It's a quick drawing to show "the maw"; we will have bumpers around perimeter as required. See Figure 8-1 in the 2017 Manual and description of Example following R01. Based on those figures and examples, we would like to know which rule the attached "concave" design might be breaking.

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Unread 24-01-2017, 22:25
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Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjb.bailey View Post


We at Team TNT2404 think we can use a concave design. Please check our image link above. It's a quick drawing to show "the maw"; we will have bumpers around perimeter as required. See Figure 8-1 in the 2017 Manual and description of Example following R01. Based on those figures and examples, we would like to know which rule the attached "concave" design might be breaking.

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Unread 24-01-2017, 22:32
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Re: Angled Bumpers, concave design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari423 View Post
Image broken
Here's the image:

If the blue part is actual robot frame, then no, this is NOT legal. Those aren't bumpers, because they're not on your frame perimeter. Your frame perimeter is a straight line that goes from one side of that opening to the other. In that drawing, your frame perimeter is basically a square. And you need bumpers for atleast 6 inches in both directions on each and every corner of that square, supported at both ends by robot structure.

Again, your drawing there won't pass inspection and you'll be making major changes to your robot on Thursday. Please don't do it.
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