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Unread 16-01-2017, 10:03
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Re: Ways to Handle Gears

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Originally Posted by engunneer View Post
The ramp idea is clever, but still illegal. The refs must consider your robot as black box. If a gear comes rolling out of your robot, it doesn't matter if it was passive or active. It was still caused by the robot and violates g24
I don't think this is true. First, the definition of LAUNCH specifically mentions an active mechanism. If the intent was active or passive, they would have said that.

Second, by your reasoning, if a gear is stuck on top of my bot and I stop quickly so that it falls off, I've just LAUNCHed a gear and get a yellow card. Penalizing someone for shaking off a gear that would otherwise get them penalized seems excessive.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 11:30
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Re: Ways to Handle Gears

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Originally Posted by GeeTwo View Post
As I understand this, you are thinking of building some sort of ramp that takes the gear from the loading station, passively rolls it to vertical and disgorges the gear at carpet level.

As the loading station is about two feet off the floor, and the gear is nearly a foot in diameter, you have 18-20" worth of gravitational potential energy. Even if you could do this with no friction at all and the speed at the carpet level is about 5 ft/s (actually a good bit less because energy will go into rotational energy with those gears having most of their mass near the edge). A gear rolling that slowly through a sea of balls and marauding robots? I can't picture that getting far enough to be worthwhile; better to snag the gear at the station and carry it.
Not saying it ends up being worth it, but in terms of physics, you're not starting from zero at the outlet of the loading station. The gear can be and is already moving; in fact, there's no legal limit on the human-input kinetic energy of the gear. (There are of course physical limits by geometry, human capability, and safety standards). It might even be possible to forehand or backhand the gear through the slot like a frisbee. Then you could pull a 469@2010, using an active mechanism that redirects the passive mechanism in between passive uses to send it left or right around the defender.

Practicality aside, this is pretty cool.


Separately, the "active mechanism" clause is grammatically parsed (with the first "or") to apply to "shooting in the air" and "kicking" as well. Conceivably one could employ some kind of gear trampoline that passively bounces the gear instead of actively shooting it.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 11:34
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Re: Ways to Handle Gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
I don't think this is true. First, the definition of LAUNCH specifically mentions an active mechanism. If the intent was active or passive, they would have said that.

Second, by your reasoning, if a gear is stuck on top of my bot and I stop quickly so that it falls off, I've just LAUNCHed a gear and get a yellow card. Penalizing someone for shaking off a gear that would otherwise get them penalized seems excessive.
I tend to agree with this interpretation of how a foul would be called, given the mention of an active mechanism. Reference 33 & 469 from 2010 - their mechanisms were passive, even if they were actuated to re-direct the ball before the ball made contact. Both were called on fouls a couple of times when they accidentally actuated the re-directing mechanism while in contact with the ball. Yet if the ball made contact and the robot didn't move - it was not a foul.
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