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Unread 17-01-2017, 12:44
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Re: Why the low Gear love

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Maher View Post
These are also not correct point values for gears. You are stating the average value of gears for each rotor assuming the gear set is completed. The following are the exact values for each gear:
  • First gear: 40 points
  • Second gear: 0 points
  • Third gear: 40 points
  • Fourth, fifth, and sixth gears: 0 points
  • Seventh gear: 40 points
  • Eighth through twelfth gears: 0 points
  • Thirteenth gear: (40 points + 1 RP) or 140 points

I think fuel will become a particularly attractive scoring option if an alliance can score more than seven gears but fewer than thirteen gears (or who can accomplish the feat of scoring all 13 of their gears). It doesn't make sense to sink time into a scoring objective that won't yield any points.

The 3rd and 4th rotor have pre-populated gears, at least until DCMP and CMP events. So you only need 1 gear for the 1st rotor, 2 gears for the second rotor, 3 for 3rd and 4 for 4th. Since there is the reserve gear that means that you only need to place 9 gears to start all of the rotors spinning and earn the ranking point.

If you assume that at least one gear is placed in auto, and the reserve is used as soon as teleop begins the points are as follows.

1st 60
reserve 0
2nd 40
3rd & 4th 0
5th 40
6th-8th 0
9th 40 plus 1 RP

Place 2 in auto and it becomes

1st 60
2nd 0
reserve 40
and then it follows the above schedule

Place 3 in auto and it becomes

1st 60
2nd 0
3rd 60
reserve 0
4th 0
5th 40
and then it follows the 1st schedule.

Which does point out why the gear conumdrum and why placing the 6th may be a waste of time if it is not done early enough to allow for 7th-9th to be placed and rotated before t=1
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Unread 17-01-2017, 12:50
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Re: Why the low Gear love

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields View Post
For all the emphasis everyone puts on fuel as the tiebreaker, not many alliances will get 4 rotors going, even in playoffs.
To clarify, fuel doesn't become more meaningful (a "tiebreaker" if you wish) after you finish all 4 rotors. Fuel becomes more meaningful after you've finished as many rotors as you're going to finish. The 4th rotor doesn't get you 6.667 points every gear; it gets you zero points every gear until the last one. Most elim alliances at most events are not going to finish 4 rotors, and--far more importantly--most prevailing ones are not even going to try.


Separately, I think Ginger is right. It's not often we have a direct scoring facet that is critically important but minimally mechanized. It's not that people won't be running gears. I expect to spend most of my time most matches running gears, but the investment is in practice rather than complexity unless you're at the level when you want one of the best gear pickups in the world (we're not).

Think of gear scoring more like drivetrains. Everyone (almost) needs them, they're critically important, but we don't talk about them much. We could make the same arguments about endgames basically every year: "one climb is 50 points, and yet everyone keeps talking about fuel". Or, "climbing is only a couple dozen seconds, and yet everyone talks about it as much as gears".

Importance =/= Match Time =/= Mechanization =/= Scoring Potential

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
The 3rd and 4th rotor have pre-populated gears, at least until DCMP and CMP events. So you only need 1 gear for the 1st rotor, 2 gears for the second rotor, 3 for 3rd and 4 for 4th. Since there is the reserve gear that means that you only need to place 9 gears to start all of the rotors spinning and earn the ranking point.
Please reread Table 3-1 in the manual. EDIT: Or rearticulate--it is 9 gears, but only after subtracting the 3 preloads. Total is 12; the 9 is: (1+2+4+6) - 3 preloads - 1 reserve = 9 from the retrieval station after the preloads.
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Last edited by Siri : 17-01-2017 at 20:07. Reason: I screwed up the quote tag and attributed to the wrong person
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Unread 17-01-2017, 13:36
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Re: Why the low Gear love

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
The 3rd and 4th rotor have pre-populated gears, at least until DCMP and CMP events. So you only need 1 gear for the 1st rotor, 2 gears for the second rotor, 3 for 3rd and 4 for 4th. Since there is the reserve gear that means that you only need to place 9 gears to start all of the rotors spinning and earn the ranking point.
The pre populated gears are in addition to the 13 required. See the image above the table in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields View Post
For all the emphasis everyone puts on fuel as the tiebreaker, not many alliances will get 4 rotors going, even in playoffs.
I am not too worried about scoring more points in matches where all four rotors are spinning, but shooting high is going to be a differentiator often.

If your two alliance partners can score a single gear each, then you have to score 4 gears to contribute at all, and 10 gears to contribute more than 40 points.

If your alliance partners score 3 gears each (on average) then you need to be able to score 6 gears to contribute at all.

I believe that on average, the other two robots on our alliance will be capable of contributing between 1 and 5 gears combined. In matches where they can score no gears, a loss is likely anyway, if they can score 6 or more gears then a win is likely anyway.

If we score a single gear in Autonomous, assuming the above is true (1-5 gears from others) then scoring anywhere from 0-7 gears is worth 0 or 40 points.

if you can score 7 gears in Teleop then there is a decent chance you are only adding 40 points to your alliance score. If you could add those same points via the high goal then you would have the same odds of winning, but win or lose you would add a ranking point.

This is the most interesting game since 2004 when it comes to specializing and team strategy.
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Last edited by JamesBrown : 17-01-2017 at 14:10.
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