Fuel Capacities

[billybarule]

We (155) are planning on a 40-60 fuel ball range at this point, depending on where bits and parts fall within the final frame construction. This doesn't account for additional balls that may be able to "nest" on top of the pile once the hopper has been filled; that would be a nice accident, but not something we're relying on for an extra handful of balls.
Curious what capacities other teams are planning on in their robot for a "cycle" of fuel collection before shooting/delivering to the boiler.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by billybarule

We (155) are planning on a 40-60 fuel ball range at this point, depending on where bits and parts fall within the final frame construction. This doesn't account for additional balls that may be able to "nest" on top of the pile once the hopper has been filled; that would be a nice accident, but not something we're relying on for an extra handful of balls.
Curious what capacities other teams are planning on in their robot for a "cycle" of fuel collection before shooting/delivering to the boiler.

I could've sworn there was a thread on this already, but I can't find it with a cursory search.

Iron Kings have been working with some ripped-down-to-1"-by-2" 2x4s to define out structure and make sure everything fits. With sub-optimal packing (most of these balls were still bagged), we think 50-60 is very doable for a fuel-oriented, chute-gears-only robot. I wouldn't begrudge a team eating into that capacity for more advanced gear handling, though.

[Donut]

Right now we think we will be holding about 50 fuel balls in our current hopper, which is fixed in the frame perimeter for the short volume. The hopper gives up some space to single file the balls 4 wide going into the fuel injector (low goal) since jamming is a much bigger concern for us than an extra few balls. Since I could see us getting into the 60 plus range with creative use of the intake conveyor for storage and sides that expand, and there is room for a gear from the loading station, I think 50 should be pretty achievable for any team focused on fuel.

[Ginger Power]

4607 is currently at 24 in our "quick load" hopper, and another 60 or so in our primary hopper*. We might eat into our primary hopper a little bit more as we continue mounting things but we've optimized for hopper volume from the beginning.

Is there even a benefit to having an extremely large hopper? How long can you reasonably expect to sit in the key shooting before somebody on the opposing alliance decides their time is more valuable playing defense on you? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? If you have an extremely large hopper it'll take you a longer amount of time to empty it.

Now obviously you could just stop emptying your hopper and continue cycling gears when defense takes notice, but then why design your robot with such a big hopper? Presumably that volume could be used to improve the functionality of other mechanisms.

Another question is how much Fuel can you reasonably expect to acquire before it makes sense to start emptying your hopper? Catching 50 from a field hopper is a good start, but then how much Fuel will you intake while running Gear cycles?


*Calculations done assuming a random packing factor for spheres of 64%

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

Is there even a benefit to having an extremely large hopper? How long can you reasonably expect to sit in the key shooting before somebody on the opposing alliance decides their time is more valuable playing defense on you? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? If you have an extremely large hopper it'll take you a longer amount of time to empty it.

The larger your hopper capacity, the fewer trips you have to make to harvest balls. If you're going to do fuel, you need to make certain that your pickup and delivery are consistent, but within those, you certainly want as big a hopper as you can manage to fit. I expect to see a number of hoppers that expand out to at least the bumper perimeter early in the match.

[D_Price]

Team 1708 is able to fit around 40-50 fuel (comfortably) in our hopper on our prototype.

[cad321]

Our goal is to fit one hopper load (so 50) within our hopper. This does not include any balls that can protrude above the hopper. Anything above 50 for us is just icing on the cake.

[6101 Robert]

Since 6101 is going for the LE goal, we're aiming to squeeze a maximum capacity of 65-70 balls into our hopper.

Originally, we were aiming for 100+ balls with a simply, small profile, gear manipulator. However, the LE goal hopper maxes-out at 70 balls, so anything above 70-75 offers little additional advantage. With this new information we redesigned the gear manipulator to pick-up gears off the floor which ultimately cut our estimated capacity down to the 65-70 range.

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by 6101 Robert

Since 6101 is going for the LE goal, we're aiming to squeeze a maximum capacity of 65-70 balls into our hopper.

Originally, we were aiming for 100+ balls with a simply, small profile, gear manipulator. However, the LE goal hopper maxes-out at 70 balls, so anything above 70-75 offers little additional advantage. With this new information we redesigned the gear manipulator to pick-up gears off the floor which ultimately cut our estimated capacity down to the 65-70 range.

One thing to consider is the low efficiency goal's processing rate and your robot's dumping rate. The low goal will be processing the balls as you feed it so if processing rate > robot feed rate then it shouldn't max out. It's a pretty standard related rates problem to optimize given robot dump rate, goal max capacity, and goal processing rate.

[JesseK]

If there's ever a poll on this, make sure there's an option for scoring '0' balls to the boiler. Some people on CD will think "whaaaa?!?!?! that's crazy", but I know of a few teams who know how to turn 0-capacity scoring into an advantage.

[3072Cap]

Team 3072 is looking at around 40-50 in the hopper, with close to 12 that can fit in our intake mechanism

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by JesseK

If there's ever a poll on this, make sure there's an option for scoring '0' balls to the boiler. Some people on CD will think "whaaaa?!?!?! that's crazy", but I know of a few teams who know how to turn 0-capacity scoring into an advantage.

If ever there was a year for a tiny round robot with swerve and a sensor like this one (Slamtec RPLIDAR A2 Now Available for FRC Teams) to allow it to automatically run gears while also avoiding other robots and find and climb the rope at the bell, THIS maybe be the year.

That robot would be playing on Saturday the CMP for sure with a reasonably good shot to make it to Einstein.

Luck favors the bold...

Dr. Joe J.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

4607 is currently at 24 in our "quick load" hopper, and another 60 or so in our primary hopper*. We might eat into our primary hopper a little bit more as we continue mounting things but we've optimized for hopper volume from the beginning.

Is there even a benefit to having an extremely large hopper? How long can you reasonably expect to sit in the key shooting before somebody on the opposing alliance decides their time is more valuable playing defense on you? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? If you have an extremely large hopper it'll take you a longer amount of time to empty it.

That all depends on how fast you can shoot balls. A dual shooter that can hit 5 balls/sec from each shooter can empty a 100 ball hopper in 10 seconds. I would hope that any team that is aiming for an extremely large hopper has put thought into scoring speed as well in order to avoid the issue of defense as much as possible.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

If ever there was a year for a tiny round robot with swerve and a sensor like this one (Slamtec RPLIDAR A2 Now Available for FRC Teams) to allow it to automatically run gears while also avoiding other robots and find and climb the rope at the bell, THIS maybe be the year.

That robot would be playing on Saturday the CMP for sure with a reasonably good shot to make it to Einstein.

Luck favors the bold...

Dr. Joe J.

Well, there was room for a tiny mostly-round robot with swerve once before...

This screw-the-fuel strategy is bold, and may not reap full dividends in quals, but I could see it being a very high draft pick assuming the alliance captains are paying any kind of attention.

(Time to fundraise to build that robot this off-season...)

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Well, there was room for a tiny mostly-round robot with swerve once before...

<snip>

Didn't follow the link but if it doesn't include the digits 1, 4, & 8 and the terms robo and/or wranglers, Mr. Billred, you are bad and you should feel bad, ;-)

Dr. Joe J.