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Unread 26-01-2017, 02:35
Donut Donut is offline
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Re: Efficient Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK View Post
Point 2 makes an assertion that in matches where a gear threshold was met (3rd or 4th rotor) that the win margin will be much greater than for the losing matches when the gear threshold was not met. It means that this game is about hitting the marks for the rotors, and win/loss will likely be determined by who can do that more reliably.

Point 3 does contradict Point one, but Point 1 was a supposition rather than an assertion. Your second paragraph is correct - I presume that more points = more wins, and since starting the next rotor means many more points than an average cycle of balls into the boiler, it is likely a gear bot will win more. Sorry this wasn't clear.
I agree, rotor count is pivotal in this game. I don't agree a gear bot will win more often, and I'll outline how I think fuel is effective below, but we really just have to wait and see how this game plays out to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Power View Post
...In the case of the Super Cycle robot, continuing the assumption that you're with 2 average robots, you'll be able to deliver 3+(2 or 3)+(2 or 3) = 7 - 9 Gears. I personally like this situation much better. You have a decent buffer against defense/mistakes and you are also shooting 3 hoppers worth of Fuel into the Boiler. The value of this Fuel will be completely dependent on the effectiveness of the shooter, but some Fuel points are basically guaranteed. These Fuel points will more often than not be the difference in matches where both alliances turn 3 Rotors and have the same number of climbs.

TL;DR: Designing your robot to handle solely Gears is risky because you're dependent upon alliance partners to achieve a Rotor advantage vs. the opposing alliance.
This is similar logic to what I was thinking. If alliances in general tend to end up with 3 rotors, then fuel will be the difference, assuming climbs work out the same.


The important thing to remember in comparing gears versus fuel is that gears have a non-linear points for effort curve. The first two gears are worth a lot of points for the effort to score them, especially since your alliance can start with those gears in robot already. The next 4 take quite a bit more work though, and the last 6 are going to be beyond the average alliance capability. Scoring 2 gears is easier than scoring substantial quantities of fuel, but 4+ is a different story.

My team is pursuing fuel as our top priority, with gears as a second. The key to be effective with fuel, is to count on staying within 1 rotor of a gear focused alliance.
  • Our alliance has to ensure we get at least the 2nd rotor since those are easy points and we can't overcome an 80+ point gear deficit. If our alliance can't manage 2 gears in a match there's no point in further strategic analysis, we lose.
  • Next priority after the 2nd rotor is to go after 40kPa in the boiler. This will be worth 40 points in the match, equivalent to the next rotor, while guaranteeing 1 RP.
  • Priorities from here depend on alliance composition on both sides. If our opponents have no chance of getting to 12 gears and can't score fuel or out score us in autonomous/climbing, we get to 41kPa and guarantee the win, since they can't score more than 40 gear points above our total.
  • If our opponents do have an edge in autonomous or can score a small amount of fuel, but can't reach 12 gears, we want to ensure we match their rotor count. This means scoring 2 and playing heavy defense to limit them to 5 or less gears if our alliance can't manage 6, or getting to 6 ourselves. At that point we are relying on outscoring them in fuel since we have a more dedicated fuel scorer than they do. If the opponents are very skilled with gears and get to 6 very early in the match, the fuel bot may have to abandon the boiler at some point to run counter D to ensure 6 gears get scored and rely on the fuel up to that point as the tiebreaker.
  • If our opponents can get 12 gears, you either play enough defense to hold them to 11, or you get to 6 gears and score 41kPa.

We're trying to ensure we can do 2 gears a match while "super cycling" as Ginger coined it to ensure we get the 2nd rotor and pull our weight for the 3rd one. From there we are all fuel focused to give a 1 rotor cushion and get the RP. We're not doing climbing because we don't want to overextend ourselves and our team is not great at building mechanisms for high loads. We feel we will be more reliable handling balls and gears than trying to lift our robot's weight (and potentially falling). I also am in the minority camp that thinks climbing will be difficult to do reliably in match, and if it isn't then someone can cheesecake a climber onto us for elims. Based on this assumption I think most matches will have 1 successful climb per side and will balance out. Since we can't climb we can sell out on defense at match end to prevent an opposing climb if needed.
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