What autonomous modes will teams have?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by jeremylee

Placing the other 2 gears...

And what's happening to the pre-loaded gear on the hopper auto bot?

[messer5740]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I'm certain there will be teams capable of placing two gears on lifts before the end of autonomous. I am less certain they will do so with enough time for the second gear to be placed on a rotor and spun up for autonomous bonus points.

But wouldn't having an auto mode for 2 gears violate A01 "Behind the lines. During AUTO, DRIVE TEAM members in ALLIANCE STATIONS and LOADING LANES may not contact anything in front of the STARTING LINES, unless for personal or equipment safety." and since you can only have one gear on your robot...

[niklas674]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

And what's happening to the pre-loaded gear on the hopper auto bot?

I think the smart move for that robot would be to place that gear on their robot so it'll fall off or to where it's in their gear mechanism. No point in having to do another cycle of you don't have to.

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by niklas674

I think the smart move for that robot would be to place that gear on their robot so it'll fall off or to where it's in their gear mechanism. No point in having to do another cycle of you don't have to.

Here is where I would assume most teams with a consistent hopper auto would be semi-powerhouses. Maybe not on par with 254 or 1114, but they would definitely know what they're doing. That being said, chances are a team with hopper auto capability will most likely also have gear capability, which would mean that at some point in the match, they would be placing that gear, at their convenience. No point in knocking it to the floor only for a floor gear intaker to pick up later, when the hopper bot will most likely be able to score it later anyway.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

I'm going to come at it the other way - identify autonomous goals and prognositcate as to how many teams will achieve them. In order from most to least,then:

60%-70% of teams will be able to cross the baseline most of the time by the end of their first event, 90%-95% of CMP teams will do so most of the time.

20%-30% of teams will deliver an auto gear at three or more qual matches in their first event. 45% to 55% at CMP.

Less than 3% of teams will ever deliver two auto gears in the same match. Less than 1% will do it three matches in a row.

15%-25% of teams will score at least one kPa autonomously in three matches at their first event.

3% to 7% of teams will score at least five kPA autonomously in three matches at their first event.

1% to 2% of teams will score at least 10 kPa autonomously in three matches at their first event.

I mostly echo these thoughts for autonomous.

I think less than 1% of teams will ever do a 2 gear auto. 900 will, because the vision system demands it, but from a strategic perspective it makes no sense if you can do anything with fuel, since a team with resources to score 2 gears should be attempting the 40+ point boiler auto instead. We will mainly see it on Einstein when a partner can already do the super boiler auto (either that or we see a coordinated double hopper auto... and CD will lose its mind).

I will predict we never see the 2nd rotor started in autonomous except at Champs or a District Champ event.

I do think 1-2% of teams will score a gear and at least one kPa autonomously in three matches at their first event.

[pmattin5459]

Does two gears actually give you any more points than one? I believe that you need one gear to get the first rotor spinning, and then two for the next rotor, for a total of 3 if you want a 120pt auto, and you can't use the gear included in the airship until teleop begins. Certainly a two gear auto is better than just one, as it gives you a nice head start on one of your rotors (that can have its second gear slotted in as soon as teleop begins) but doesn't really give you those auto bonus points for the second rotor.

[carpedav000]

1.) score 2 gears and cross
2.) score a gear and 10 high goals
3.) score 8-10 high goals and cross
4.) score 10 low goals

[Donut]

Originally Posted by pmattin5459

Does two gears actually give you any more points than one? I believe that you need one gear to get the first rotor spinning, and then two for the next rotor, for a total of 3 if you want a 120pt auto, and you can't use the gear included in the airship until teleop begins. Certainly a two gear auto is better than just one, as it gives you a nice head start on one of your rotors (that can have its second gear slotted in as soon as teleop begins) but doesn't really give you those auto bonus points for the second rotor.

It doesn't, you are correct that you need all 3 gears for the 2nd rotor bonus. This is part of why the consensus is it will almost never happen, the value of a 2 gear auto is less than a hopper dump + boiler auto which has the potential for 40+ points if perfected. 2 gear auto only makes sense to consider if you can't handle fuel in auto or someone else can better, and even then the coordination to pull it off is difficult.

[natejo99]

It would be interesting to see a team with a 2 gear auton partner with a team that can score 40+ kPa autonomously (in the high goal), and a 3rd bot that can place a single gear, getting a total of (check my math) 175 points and 1 RP in auton (assuming all 3 robots cross the baseline at some point, whether to access the hopper or to hang a gear). I realize that this is a perfect scenario, a lot of variables involved (including lightning fast pilots) and although it may not be probable, I think it is possible, at least at the Championship level. At any rate it would be great to see.

[Poseidon5817]

I'm going to be honest here, I don't think we will see very many (if at all) 2 gear autos over the course of the season, especially at high levels. There are simply easier ways to get the three gears up in auto if you really wanted to, and having to have a team drop a gear and have another team pick it up consistently will be much harder.

[jeremylee]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

And what's happening to the pre-loaded gear on the hopper auto bot?

Gear + 40kpa auto from the elite teams.

[pmattin5459]

Originally Posted by jeremylee

Gear + 40kpa auto from the elite teams.

Precisely. It makes sense for a high level team to do both fuel and gears in auton rather than ignoring the 20 point bonus (and progress towards the 3rd and 4th rotors) that their alliance gets from doing a 3 gear auto (with the 2nd and 3rd picks getting a gear each) or hoping for an alliance partner capable of a 2 gear auton.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by jeremylee

Gear + 40kpa auto from the elite teams.

If there's a team that can place a gear on the lift with sufficient time to start a rotor, open a hopper, receive and index the hopper's balls, and shoot 40+ balls with enough time for them to be processed before the end of autonomous I'll be beyond impressed. The amount of teams capable of that will be something we can count on one hand.

[David Lame]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

What maximum autonomous capability do you think various levels of robots will have?

1. Elite teams (Top 1%)
2. Alliance captain teams
3. Median teams
4. Low-level teams

Do you think elite teams will be able to score multiple gears in autonomous? Will low-level teams be able to consistently score a single gear? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

1. Place a gear, dump a hopper, go shoot all the hopper balls. (Is that all legal? I haven't paid close enough attention, because I'm not part of a 1% team.)
2. Place a gear at the beginning of the season, with success about 1/3 of the time. Place a gear and shoot their preloaded balls by the end. (This is where I'm aiming for.)
3. Shoot their preloaded balls at the beginning of the season. Attempt and occasionally manage a gear by the end.
4. Drive forward, or do nothing.


I think placing a gear during autonomous is something a lot of people underestimate for difficulty. Maybe not. Computer vision is a lot easier and better than it used to be, and more people, students and mentors alike, know a lot more about it than they used to. That will greatly improve success rates.
This technology race is positively scary some days.

[niklas674]

Originally Posted by David Lame

1. Place a gear, dump a hopper, go shoot all the hopper balls. (Is that all legal? I haven't paid close enough attention, because I'm not part of a 1% team.)
2. Place a gear at the beginning of the season, with success about 1/3 of the time. Place a gear and shoot their preloaded balls by the end. (This is where I'm aiming for.)
3. Shoot their preloaded balls at the beginning of the season. Attempt and occasionally manage a gear by the end.
4. Drive forward, or do nothing.


I think placing a gear during autonomous is something a lot of people underestimate for difficulty. Maybe not. Computer vision is a lot easier and better than it used to be, and more people, students and mentors alike, know a lot more about it than they used to. That will greatly improve success rates.
This technology race is positively scary some days.

Number 1 is legal.