2 gear autonomous

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by Fields

Same thing I said previously. You don't have 15 seconds for the robot to do it's thing. You have 10-12 seconds with the last bit of time eaten up by the pilot placing the last gear and spinning the rotor 3 times before auto ends.

I'm waiting for dropped gears and lift handles during the rush to get both rotors spinning. Should be fun

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Waz

I briefly thought of this too but then I read the following in the game manual:

ROTORS only start if GEARS are installed in ROTOR order: 1, 2, 3, and then 4. The order of GEAR placement within a ROTOR set is not important. To start ROTOR 1, the PILOT places the GEAR in the GEAR slot at the top of the STEAM TANK, opposite the stack light for ROTOR 1.

Steve

It's worth reading the Q&A's interpretation of its own manual quote: A82 - Please remember that "ROTORS only start if GEARS are installed in ROTOR order." In other words, you won't be able to start ROTOR 4 until all other ROTORS have been started, etc.

Our FRC Overlords are really not doing a great job on this subject. Certainly everyone agrees that Rotor N cannot actually engage before Rotor N-1. We also agree that the rotation count of the lowest unengaged rotor rezeros if it sits idle over 10 seconds (this doesn't, itself, preclude accumulating rotations when you're not the lowest unengaged rotor, though it's admittedly highest on this pile of loose mandates). A82 seems to think the former has the same meaning as the manual telling us the gears need to be installed in order. If the GDC actually means A82 instead of p23, it's unclear whether the A82 meaning forbids starting to accumulate rotations or just actually starting (engaging) the rotor. Alternatively, if you can't earn rotations on N before engaging N-1, then the question becomes whether you've completely lost Rotor N by rotating early or if you can still accumulate rotations after engaging N-1 [what Kevin said].


Similarly, if the GDC really does mean the current manual wording of installing in order, the description is still incomplete. The strictest interpretation of the current wording is actually that ever installing any gear out of order (by rotor) results in killing at least one rotor--which one is not clear. If you put your first gear on Rotor 2 and your second on Rotor 1, will Rotor 1 start (and will you get points for it)? If not, can you lift your first gear up and then get points for Rotor 1?


I have now resolved to get myself a Q&A code. The waiting is driving me nuts. And I'm sure I'm annoying Kevin.

[Waz]

Kevin and Siri,

You both make good points and I agree that the manual and Q/A could be more clear on this subject. I took another read of both and it almost sounds like an alliance could do the following (not that I would recommend it) and still be within the rules and get credit for all 4 rotors:
1) fill rotor 2 with gears,
2) fill rotor 3 with gears,
3) fill rotor 4 with gears,
4) place a gear to start rotor 1,
5) crank rotor 2 to life,
6) crank rotor 3 to life, and finally,
7) crank rotor 4 to life.

I appears from my latest reading (ask me again later) that steps 5 through 7 could NOT overlap but 1 through 3 could and step 4 could be completed anytime before 5.

Thanks,
Steve

[Kevin Zhang]

But you can add one gear, then take a gear from an alliance partner. In order for a team to be controlling the gear, all they have to do is touch it, so the gear can be placed on the ground. With finesse and extremely efficient autonomous as I can only assume the top teams will be able to achieve, a 3 gear auton is theoretically possible.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Kevin Zhang

In order for a team to be controlling the gear, all they have to do is touch it,

That's a weird way to interpret

Originally Posted by 4.2 Match Setup

When a DRIVE TEAM loads their ROBOT onto the FIELD for a MATCH they may elect to:
A. pre-load one (1) GEAR in or on their ROBOT such that it is fully and only supported by the ROBOT.

[pmattin5459]

Originally Posted by arichman1257

G27. One-GEAR limit. ROBOTS may not control more than one GEAR at a time.
Violation: FOUL. If strategic, TECH FOUL and YELLOW CARD.

I mayou just be reading the thread here wrong but it seems add if this rule has been over looked.

It has not. None of the ideas discussed here would require holding more than one gear at a time.

[pmattin5459]

Originally Posted by CalTran

That's a weird way to interpret

The rule you put in talks about match setup. His comment talks about controlling objects. And anytime you push an object in frc, you are controlling it.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by pmattin5459

The rule you put in talks about match setup. His comment talks about controlling objects. And anytime you push an object in frc, you are controlling it.

Not entirely true. Inadvertently contacting a gear is not considered control as long as it is not advantageous. The blue box under G27 talks about this.

If you do happen to accidentally push a gear closer to your lift's while carrying another its a dead gear. Scoring it afterwards could be seen as an advantage.
Also, the difference between herding and bulldozing is up to the discretion of the ref's, so keep that in mind.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by pmattin5459

The rule you put in talks about match setup. His comment talks about controlling objects. And anytime you push an object in frc, you are controlling it.

Actually, the original comments were indeed about match setup--namely putting a gear on the ground in contact with Robot A to make it easier for Robot B to run a 2/3-gear auton:

Originally Posted by Kevin Zhang

But you can add one gear, then take a gear from an alliance partner. In order for a team to be controlling the gear, all they have to do is touch it, so the gear can be placed on the ground. With finesse and extremely efficient autonomous as I can only assume the top teams will be able to achieve, a 3 gear auton is theoretically possible.

But regardless, no, to "push" an object does not inherently mean "control":

G27 BB. ...Examples of interaction with GEARS that are not “control” include, but are not limited to:
A. “bulldozing” (inadvertent contact with GEARS while in the path of the
ROBOT moving about the FIELD)
B. “deflecting” (being hit by a GEAR that bounces into or off of a
ROBOT).

Note that these definitions can and do change year to year (so there's no FRC standard), though this one has been somewhat perennial.