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Unread 02-02-2017, 12:53
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Pre-filling stored air

We are looking at having alot of tanks on our bot this year. Can we fill our tanks before tbe match? We are hoping to complete this by using an external battery to power our on board compresser, then plug it back into the pcm (we are connecting it with anderson connectors). Is this legal or should we ask the q&a?

Let us know,
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Unread 02-02-2017, 13:03
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

You can pre-fill your tanks, but not by bypassing the control system like you proposed. Just connect your robot to your driver station via ethernet cable in your pit, enable the robot until the compressor shuts off, then put in a fresh battery. Just make sure you aren't set to run autonomous when you enable.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 13:03
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

That definitely isn't legal by R85. You can only power the compressor through the robot control system. If you have an onboard compressor you can just enable your bot in queue, though.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 13:04
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRCTeam2906 View Post
We are looking at having alot of tanks on our bot this year. Can we fill our tanks before tbe match? We are hoping to complete this by using an external battery to power our on board compresser, then plug it back into the pcm (we are connecting it with anderson connectors). Is this legal or should we ask the q&a?

Let us know,
FRC Team 2906
I don't see the need for the off-board complications. Fill your air system normally then swap in a fresh battery.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 13:06
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

You cannot bypass the control system to use the compressor like others have stated but is legal to use a different battery and pre-charge your air tanks
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Unread 02-02-2017, 13:09
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

Also R84 "one and only one compressor". If you have a compressor on the robot, then that is the only compressor you can use, including pre-fill.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 14:40
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

What about a bike pump / foot pump and a schrader fitting? can that be used to fill the tank in queue rather than enabling the robot?
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Unread 02-02-2017, 14:44
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

Quote:
Originally Posted by flemdogmillion View Post
What about a bike pump / foot pump and a schrader fitting? can that be used to fill the tank in queue rather than enabling the robot?
That would mean the ROBOT would get compressed air from a source other than the one compressor, which violates R84.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 14:59
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

I'd also note that by "another battery" that should be another legal FRC battery, through a standard battery connector, etc.

The whole point of this portion of the pneumatics rules is to mostly limit the stored power on the robot to what's supplied by the ONE legal battery powering the ONE legal compressor. Onboard or offboard compressor, airing up your robot should be exactly like it was running an onboard compressor on the field during a match. Ask yourself if what you're doing is something that'd be legal during a match, minus size/weight constraints for an off-board compressor. If it's not legal during a match, it's not legal in your pit in prep for a match.

This means you should think about your air consumption and how well your system would work with a 6 minute field timeout between Finals matches. If you can't fill your tanks from empty or end of match level to full enough in 5 minutes, you're using too much air.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 15:12
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

As others have stated, charging your pneumatic system with anything other than that provided by the rules could result in any decision by event Chief volunteers. If stored air is important to your strategy then do not risk it by charging your system by any method other than that provided in the robot rules.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 16:02
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

RTM

Quote:
R43. Non-electrical sources of energy used by the ROBOT, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall
come only from the following sources:
A. compressed air stored in the pneumatic system that has been charged in compliance
with R84 and R85,

B. a change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity,
C. storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts,
D. closed-loop COTS pneumatic (gas) shocks, and
E. air-filled (pneumatic) wheels.
Quote:
R84. Compressed air on the ROBOT must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor
specifications must not exceed nominal 1.10 cfm (~519 cm3/s) flow rate @ 12VDC.
R85. The compressor (permitted per R84) may be located off-board the ROBOT, however the
compressor must still be controlled and powered by the ROBOT when used.
Code:
The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the
ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in storage tanks on the
ROBOT provided the additional restrictions of R90 are met.
The intent of this rule is to permit teams to take advantage of the weight
savings associated with keeping the compressor off-board. However,
using the compressor off-board of the ROBOT does NOT permit noncompliance
with any other applicable rules.
Rules are unambiguous on this topic.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 20:00
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCH95 View Post
Rules are unambiguous on this topic.
I think "one and only one compressor" is ambiguous and so we're going to use 3 or 4 of them. And a foot pump.

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Unread 02-02-2017, 20:09
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemoore View Post
You cannot bypass the control system to use the compressor like others have stated but is legal to use a different battery and pre-charge your air tanks
You can only use a different legal battery if it is the only battery in the robot, powering it as it would be during a match. As others have said, this should be done before you swap batteries.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 21:52
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

FIRST ought to just supply an air compressor field side at the queue which each team can use to fill their tanks. This would solve what is always a problem every year with teams misunderstanding the rules. Would cost $300 per field.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 22:29
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Re: Pre-filling stored air

I second this notion. Even though its not going to happen this year. *crosses fingers*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
FIRST ought to just supply an air compressor field side at the queue which each team can use to fill their tanks. This would solve what is always a problem every year with teams misunderstanding the rules. Would cost $300 per field.
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