Go to Post This easy world of friends, of people that you can talk to for hours on end without knowing one another? That's FIRST. - Keith Chester [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 11:46
rlance rlance is offline
Registered User
FRC #5550
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bethany, OK
Posts: 31
rlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to beholdrlance is a splendid one to behold
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_L View Post
Here is a control scheme for omnidirectional robots that I developed earlier that, in my opinion, gives the driver the most useful control over the robot's position and orientation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I'd be happy to answer any questions about it.
What is the "Moon Maneuver"???

We are doing omni this year and are considering adding a button for a pre-programmed evasive maneuver. Is this one of those?
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 11:53
InFlight's Avatar
InFlight InFlight is offline
3574 - The King's of Bling
AKA: Jim
FRC #3574 (High Tekerz)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 165
InFlight is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

We used a flight simulator type of joystick for our recycle rush Mecanum Drive. This enables you to control both direction, and rotation (via twist) simultaneously and intuitively. You could use this method for either field centric or robot centric control.

Logitech 963290-0403 is a very reasonably priced PC USB option.
__________________

Thank you 2016 Alliance Partners - 948, 1510, 2046, 2521, 2980, 2990, 4911, 4683
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 12:12
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is online now
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,079
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
For a game like this one, I like having the option to switch between the two mid-match - dip into field centric for fine adjustments and robot centric for long sprints. But this of course requires even more training to be good.
Or have one driver trained with field centric and one trained with robot centric and switch control between the two as needed.
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 12:16
NShep98's Avatar
NShep98 NShep98 is online now
Registered User
AKA: Nathan Shepherd
FRC #2079 (4H ALARM Robotics)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Franklin, MA
Posts: 264
NShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud ofNShep98 has much to be proud of
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlance View Post
What is the "Moon Maneuver"???

We are doing omni this year and are considering adding a button for a pre-programmed evasive maneuver. Is this one of those?
A moon maneuver is a move in which you "orbit" around a fixed point, often an opposing robot, while facing that point at all times, much like the moon orbiting the Earth.
__________________


FRC 2079 - 4H ALARM Robotics 2015 - 2017

FLL 2011, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 12:21
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,797
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes View Post
Or have one driver trained with field centric and one trained with robot centric and switch control between the two as needed.
I'm not sure if you're joking, but this is a completely ridiculous idea. This is almost guaranteed to give you worse performance than giving the same driver double the stick time, and the speed lost in switching drivers mid-match completely negates the relatively minor speed advantage of switching between the styles of drive. Don't do this.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 12:56
Ari423's Avatar
Ari423 Ari423 is online now
LabVIEW aficionado and robot addict
AKA: The guy with the yellow hat
FRC #5987 (Galaxia)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 661
Ari423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud ofAri423 has much to be proud of
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
You can also train your drivers to operate a field centric controls in the "tank drive direction" when going on long sprints. It's just a matter of remembering to turn and pointing in the right direction.

For a game like this one, I like having the option to switch between the two mid-match - dip into field centric for fine adjustments and robot centric for long sprints. But this of course requires even more training to be good.
With a bit of feedback control, you should be able to assign a button on the controller to "sprint mode" where driving is still field-centric, but the robot always drives with the front forward. I haven't tried it before, but that should give you the sprinting speed of robot-centric with the ease of control of field-centric.
__________________
2017-present: Mentor FRC 5987
2017-present: CSA for FIRST in Israel
2012-2016: Member FRC 423
2013: Programmer
2014: Head Programmer, Wiring
2015: Head Programmer, Wiring
2016: Captain, Head Programmer, Wiring, Manipulator, Chassis, CAD, Business, Outreach (basically everything)


Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 12:58
JesseK's Avatar
JesseK JesseK is offline
Expert Flybot Crasher
FRC #1885 (ILITE)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 3,735
JesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NShep98 View Post
A moon maneuver is a move in which you "orbit" around a fixed point, often an opposing robot, while facing that point at all times, much like the moon orbiting the Earth.
I was staying away from this thread until this. I love driving this maneuver in video games and robot demos. It's pretty fun. However, have yet to see it give an advantage in any FRC match videos.

---

This year Mecanum seems to give the most advantage during line up of receiving a gear and placing a gear. In field-centric mode, it does so by increasing margin of error and intuitiveness to do those tasks. The most graceful Mecanum bots this year will do just that, IMO. Juke moves with Mecanum under-perform 9 times out of 10.

In my experience, Mecanum doesn't seem to reduce the time it takes to do those tasks when compared to a practiced driver on a tank. Time is the differentiator in everything at high levels of play. I'd even say that a tank drive which sprints 16-18ft/s during the straightaways and shifts to a 6-7ft/s low gear for the line-up would still be a faster cycle time than a Mecanum drive at an overall 12-13ft/s.

So "graceful" Mecanum bots who can score well in a reasonable amount of time may find a home on my alliance in early events simply because I set goals for my team to do so well at our singular role that the Mecanum bot will be largely undefended. Or maybe I get that Mecanum bot on my alliance in order to absorb the defense since they're so easy to defend. Who knows .
__________________

Drive Coach, 1885 (2007-present)
2017 Scoring Model
CAD Library | GitHub
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 13:02
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is online now
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,079
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I'm not sure if you're joking, but this is a completely ridiculous idea. This is almost guaranteed to give you worse performance than giving the same driver double the stick time, and the speed lost in switching drivers mid-match completely negates the relatively minor speed advantage of switching between the styles of drive. Don't do this.
Not joking, that is the control scheme we are currently planning to implement.

We still have plenty of time to abort if we discover this is more trouble than it is worth.
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 13:04
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
Registered User
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,189
Tom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Marra View Post
What are some of the most graceful examples of mecanum robot driving in the past?
None.
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 13:50
RoboChair's Avatar
RoboChair RoboChair is offline
He who fixes with hammers #tsimfd
AKA: Devin Castellucci
FRC #1678 (Citrus Circuits and 5458 Digital Minds)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 715
RoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
None.
Something about "Going sideways is a waste of time"?
__________________

12 Years and counting! Over a third of my life has been spent with FRC.
Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 14:33
lenny8's Avatar
lenny8 lenny8 is offline
Aww Yea
AKA: L-Deezy
FRC #1018 (Robodevils)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 239
lenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud oflenny8 has much to be proud of
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
None.
I agree that we really haven't seen a perfect example YET on how you should drive mecanums but with the constant bashing of the drivetrain ( of people who never even tried it might I add ) it's going be hard to get there.
__________________
Learn something, Know Something, Do something
Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 14:42
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is offline
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,764
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari423 View Post
With a bit of feedback control, you should be able to assign a button on the controller to "sprint mode" where driving is still field-centric, but the robot always drives with the front forward. I haven't tried it before, but that should give you the sprinting speed of robot-centric with the ease of control of field-centric.
This, only I think it'd be better to have it pick the closest of forwards/backwards. Or maybe have that toggleable. It should be straightforward to implement. Hold down the print button, lock out rotation input, apply fixed amount of rotation command CW or CCW in direction of travel based on commanded vector and your current heading. Probably scale it down once you get very close to the correct heading, but capping it to a reasonable amount would probably make driving more stable for large corrections.

Field centric tank drive implemented in this fashion would be an interesting innovation.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 14:52
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is online now
MST Rolla Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,438
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenny8 View Post
I agree that we really haven't seen a perfect example YET on how you should drive mecanums but with the constant bashing of the drivetrain ( of people who never even tried it might I add ) it's going be hard to get there.
Can't tell if you're talking in general, or trying to call out 254 on having never tried an omnidirectional drivetrain. If the latter, I'd be immensely surprised if they've never dabbled with it in offseason. I assume their on field performance with a WCD needs no justification.
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / EmCee (2014 - Present) | FRC EmCee (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016) | FTC Referee (2017)
Academic Student (Forever)
Reply With Quote
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 15:05
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is online now
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,079
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
This, only I think it'd be better to have it pick the closest of forwards/backwards. Or maybe have that toggleable. It should be straightforward to implement. Hold down the print button, lock out rotation input, apply fixed amount of rotation command CW or CCW in direction of travel based on commanded vector and your current heading. Probably scale it down once you get very close to the correct heading, but capping it to a reasonable amount would probably make driving more stable for large corrections.

Field centric tank drive implemented in this fashion would be an interesting innovation.
We are implementing this in our code this year, I had this same idea a few years back but haven't had a chance to implement it until now.

Strafing can be pretty useful in many situations, but it is an awful choice for travelling long distances quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 15:52
NolanGZ3452's Avatar
NolanGZ3452 NolanGZ3452 is offline
Registered User
FRC #3452 (GreengineerZ)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3
NolanGZ3452 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Most Graceful Mecanum Robots?

I might be bias because this is my own team, but i beleave we got the most our of our mecanum drivetrain in 2015. I know its not the same because the games are so different, but i believe if you go with a mecanum drivetrain you need to use its abilities to your advantage or else you might as well just have gone with tank drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJLMB58eVU
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:29.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi