Go to Post If you have an opinion on something, it often says more about you than it does that thing. - JVN [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2017, 21:15
frcguy's Avatar
frcguy frcguy is offline
#GearsAllDay
AKA: Nicholas Dal Porto
FRC #5940 (B.R.E.A.D.)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Burlingame, CA
Posts: 917
frcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond repute
What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes View Post
I want to be allowed to use hydraulic systems.
I like my field carpet without oil slicks, thank you very much.
__________________


2017: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional/San Francisco Regional)
2016: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional Rookie All-Star and Quarterfinalist, Curie Quarterfinalist)

Volunteer: 2016 (Chezy Champs Field Reset, Capital City Classic FTA, MadTown ThrowDown FTA)
Reply With Quote
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 07:33
PayneTrain's Avatar
PayneTrain PayneTrain is online now
please put down the gun
AKA: Lizard King
FRC #0422 (The Meme Tech Pneumatic Devices)
Team Role: Mascot
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: RVA
Posts: 2,275
PayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond reputePayneTrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

I think in the next 4 years, lidar technology will get cheaper and more teams will pick it up, hopefully spurred on by a game that is designed to have a longer auto with less uniform targets.

I think the next big hardware leap would be Brushless motors. I think we're ready for that now, just need someone to make a proposal that satisfies the powers that be.
Reply With Quote
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 10:44
rich2202 rich2202 is online now
Registered User
FRC #2202 (BEAST Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,282
rich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

GPS. All you need is a few sources of signal.

The FMS system provides one signal source. Being able to lock onto a few more (cell phones?), and you could have a pretty good estimation of where you are on the field.

Working around R68 would be needed - no form of wireless communication to, from, or within the robot. Visible spectrum and non-RF sensors are allowed. With RF being 3 kHz to 300 GHz, you could try to make something outside of that range to send a time mark.

For this year's Airship, we are working on Doppler Radar, however, we don't see that as being useful for future games.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 11:06
bobbysq bobbysq is offline
Registered User
FRC #4646 (Team ASAP)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 333
bobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud ofbobbysq has much to be proud of
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2202 View Post
GPS. All you need is a few sources of signal.
Or IR tracking like the HTC Vive, with the field having the tracking stations set up and having the sensor array in the KOP. It could be like the 2012 Kinect station, but less gimmicky, using technology that actually works, and with more applications in the field of robotics.
Reply With Quote
  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 11:10
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is online now
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,839
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbysq View Post
Or IR tracking like the HTC Vive, with the field having the tracking stations set up and having the sensor array in the KOP. It could be like the 2012 Kinect station, but less gimmicky, using technology that actually works, and with more applications in the field of robotics.
I don't know, I wouldn't call this gimmicky...
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
Reply With Quote
  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 11:19
Brian C's Avatar
Brian C Brian C is offline
Doer of Whatever
AKA: Brian Cholerton
FRC #1468 (J-Birds)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Islip Terrace Long Island-NY
Posts: 329
Brian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant futureBrian C has a brilliant future
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Boehm_329 View Post
Smaller, inexpensive water jet cutters that can cut 48x48x.25in aluminum to .001 in accuracy at 100 in/min for less than $1000 and a tech grant to get one in KoP

YESSssssssss!
__________________
2017 Season; Game Announcer at

SBPLI Long Island Regional
Reply With Quote
  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 11:31
mrnoble's Avatar
mrnoble mrnoble is offline
teacher/coach
FRC #1339 (Angelbotics)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: denver, co
Posts: 993
mrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian C View Post
YESSssssssss!
+1
__________________
http://www.angelbotics.com

Remember why you're doing this.
Reply With Quote
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 11:39
mrnoble's Avatar
mrnoble mrnoble is offline
teacher/coach
FRC #1339 (Angelbotics)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: denver, co
Posts: 993
mrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond reputemrnoble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

The three biggest advances in the last six years or so are:
  1. COTS frame and gusset options that allow significant customization
  2. COTS gearboxes that are compact, reliable and provide many options
  3. The smaller and more robust control system elements, including the RoboRio and motor controllers

Swerve-in-a-box for less than $100/module, requiring nothing other than attachment to standard VF to make a drivebase, would change mobility. I think that's coming.
__________________
http://www.angelbotics.com

Remember why you're doing this.
Reply With Quote
  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 13:02
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,082
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnoble View Post
The three biggest advances in the last six years or so are:
  1. COTS frame and gusset options that allow significant customization
  2. COTS gearboxes that are compact, reliable and provide many options
  3. The smaller and more robust control system elements, including the RoboRio and motor controllers

Swerve-in-a-box for less than $100/module, requiring nothing other than attachment to standard VF to make a drivebase, would change mobility. I think that's coming.
I don't think you'll ever see sub $100. I mean, two VersaPlanetaries are like $150, add a wheel and some extra structure, I'd be happy with $200-250 range just because of how many parts they are.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #40   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 13:15
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,795
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnoble View Post
The three biggest advances in the last six years or so are:
  1. COTS frame and gusset options that allow significant customization
  2. COTS gearboxes that are compact, reliable and provide many options
  3. The smaller and more robust control system elements, including the RoboRio and motor controllers

Swerve-in-a-box for less than $100/module, requiring nothing other than attachment to standard VF to make a drivebase, would change mobility. I think that's coming.
If your team doesn't have the fundraising / organizational resources to afford the current COTS swerve modules, the team may not have the software / organizational resources to get a test bed done early enough and thoroughly programmed for effective use. Basically, I think we are already at the point where the limiting factor is software capability.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
  #41   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 13:40
marshall's Avatar
marshall marshall is offline
My pants are louder than yours.
FRC #0900 (The Zebracorns)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,338
marshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond reputemarshall has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
If your team doesn't have the fundraising / organizational resources to afford the current COTS swerve modules, the team may not have the software / organizational resources to get a test bed done early enough and thoroughly programmed for effective use. Basically, I think we are already at the point where the limiting factor is software capability.
You don't just click and drag the "Swerve drive go roundy roundy" VIs from the palette onto the canvas?
__________________
"La mejor salsa del mundo es la hambre" - Miguel de Cervantes
"The future is unwritten" - Joe Strummer
"Simplify, then add lightness" - Colin Chapman
Reply With Quote
  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 13:58
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is online now
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,656
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

The next big step is going to be the continued development of consumer-grade machine tools. Additive manufacturing capability is already percolating down to the hobbyist and prosumer levels, and teams have adopted that technology already. As we see similar developments in affordable CNC mills/routers/lathes/combo machines, I suspect we'll see significant strides in machinery capabilities of teams who work out of classrooms and garages.
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #43   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 14:10
cadandcookies's Avatar
cadandcookies cadandcookies is offline
Director of Programs, GOFIRST
AKA: Nick Aarestad
FTC #9205 (The Iron Maidens)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 1,565
cadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond reputecadandcookies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes View Post
It would be a lot of fun. I like fun!
I think we might have different definitions of the word fun. Personally my definition does not include unnecessary field delays (we get enough necessary ones as is). I could definitely see this happening though, provided someone can come up with a system that might be less susceptible than the current pneumatics system to leaks. I can't say I know enough about hydraulics to know how likely this is to happen, but the visceral "I don't want fluid all over my field and someone else's robot" reaction is, I think, going to stick around until someone proves there's a workable solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell View Post
...as well as a few capabilities that have not yet been widely featured on an FRC field, but might in the next couple of years. In most cases here, I think the real opportunity for innovation is from the commoditization of robotics technologies from consumer products and early-stage robotics industries ramping up capability while driving down cost:
  • 2D/3D Scanning LIDAR
  • Solid-state LIDAR
  • Torque control
  • Robot localization / SLAM - Precise drift-free robot pose estimation by recognizing landmarks on the field
  • Fast, accurate vision tracking of less structured targets
  • Brushless motors
  • Hydraulics and hybrid motor/fluid actuators
  • Low-cost, low-backlash gearing
Love this list. LIDAR is definitely going to be a much more real option in the near future. We're definitely in the bumpy/expensive part of adoption now, but this is certainly a thing where consumer products will help drive prices down to the point where we can get modules designed for competitive robotics.

I think localization is going to get there sooner rather than later. I know a few teams that have been experimenting with it in FTC using the image targets and Vuforia, and I could imagine a similar scheme being used in FRC. FRC/competition robotics fields already have a number of features that make them much better for this than "real-world" scenarios, so it's really a matter of either the commoditization effect that you mentioned or FIRST making things a little easier for teams. As a side note, I would love to see a challenge eventually, once localization becomes more mainstream, where mapping is a significant challenge in a longer autonomous period. Perhaps a semi-randomized field, not quite like Stronghold, but similar.

Something else that might become more of a mainstream over the next few years is roller-sized mecanum / "vectored intake" wheels. We aren't quite at the point where they're commodity for FRC (given most of the teams that use them like this are using 4" versions), but I think that will get here soon too. Not quite as far out as anything you've mentioned, but I also don't think they're really highly accessible to average teams yet. I suppose that isn't a leap so much as a step forward, though.
__________________

Never assume the motives of others are, to them, less noble than yours are to you. - John Perry Barlow
tumblr | twitter
'Snow Problem CAD Files: 2015 2016
MN FTC Field Manager, FTA, CSA, Emcee
FLL Maybe NXT Year (09-10) -> FRC 2220 (11-14) -> FTC 9205(14-?)/FRC 2667 (15-16)
VEXU UMN (2015-??)
Volunteer since 2011
2013 RCA Winner (North Star Regional) (2220)
2016 Connect Award Winner (North Super Regional and World Championship) (9205)
Reply With Quote
  #44   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 14:22
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,082
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall View Post
You don't just click and drag the "Swerve drive go roundy roundy" VIs from the palette onto the canvas?
Code:
import swerve from _future_
But, honestly, with the closed loop functions on the SRX and the VersaPlanetary Encoder stage feedback controls have gotten better. The actual math behind swerves has been published pretty thoroughly. It'll take some loop tuning but at this point I think a lot of the hard parts of swerve have been removed.

There's still UX issues with them but, tbh, there's similar UX issues with most drive systems in FIRST. That'd be a great place to see some innovation - the UX of the operator control. CheezyDrive (SplitArcade) seems to be a good solution for tank drives in that it discourages the Drive, Turn, Drive, Turn approach that is brutal to drive systems. I'd really like to see some dev on similar things for mecanum to address the fact that sideways motion is expensive and as you are driving it auto rotates you drive wheels into position.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #45   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2017, 14:34
Taylor's Avatar
Taylor Taylor is online now
Professor of Thinkology, ThD
AKA: @taylorstem
FRC #3487 (Red Pride Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA 46227
Posts: 4,606
Taylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond reputeTaylor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will be the next technical growth leap for the average team?

The next advancement will not be technological, it will be cultural.
With permanent full FRC fields becoming more and more prolific, access to events, both official and unofficial, will increase dramatically. This will create demand for mass media coverage, switching from "aren't these cute kids and their cute robots cute?" to actual game reviews, results, and prognostication.
__________________
Hi!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi