Go to Post Remember, FIRST is merely a means to an end - the end result being that we completely change the world for the better. - RogerR [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 10:32
efoote868 efoote868 is offline
foote stepped in
AKA: E. Foote
FRC #0868
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 1,427
efoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond repute
Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

Last night I worked with 3 students to troubleshoot a problem with our practice robot. Part of the problem was either rushed or novice electrical work on the practice robot, which is understandable if they never learned properly.
Since I wanted them to learn, I made them redo it. Another problem became apparent almost immediately, our electrical tools are in a bad state and our students need training.

When I asked them to cut and strip a wire, they grabbed this type of tool (for some reason we have 4-5 pairs of these ):
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-1161...dp/B0007W6JYC/
I was able to find our 1 multi-tool to show them how that tool will nick or cut the strands of copper, and why that's undesirable.

Searching through old threads, I've found quite a few generic "what tools should we have for a new team", but I'd like to focus on nicer to have electrical tools.
Specifically, if you had the Cadillac of an electrical tool kit, what would be in it?

Points of consideration:
Where did you buy your tool, or is there a specific brand you trust?
Would you recommend a preferred multi-tool (cut, strip, crimp all in one)?
What about just wire stripping for wiring an entire robot drive train?
Would you use a dedicated wire cutting tool?
Self-Adjusting Wire Stripper or Wire Stripping Pliers?
Is there a favorite crimping tool?
Recommended soldering iron?
Which of these do you bring to competition, what do you leave at home?

2nd part of the discussion, do you have any type of system in place for protecting your electrical tools from novice abuse? How often do you have to replace a tool?

Related threads:
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=124116
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...hreadid=123332
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=130701
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=152992
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...d.php?t=142654
__________________

Be Healthy. Never Stop Learning. Say It Like It Is. Own It. Like our values? Flexware Innovation is hiring!. We're looking for Senior Automation, Software, and System Engineers. Check us out!
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 10:53
JamesCH95's Avatar
JamesCH95 JamesCH95 is offline
Hardcore Dork
AKA: JCH
FRC #0095 (The Grasshoppers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Enfield, NH
Posts: 1,898
JamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond reputeJamesCH95 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

We buy from McMaster because of their customer service, fast shipping, and good products.

Multi-tools compromise somewhere. I don't want compromises in my electrical system. Skip them.

We've been setting up our electrical supplies for the last two years with nice tools and consumables.

Get a few different sized wire cutters. Side-cuts work well for 16AWG and smaller, Lineman's pliers for 14-10awg, and curved cutters for 6awg.

Never had good luck with self-adjusting wire strippers, do not recommend.


Non-insulated terminal crimpers.
I prefer to use non-insulated terminals. As brands change the insulation thickness changes, which will impact the crimp performance significantly. Non-insulated terminals don't suffer like insulated terminals do in this regard. We always insulate with electrical tape or (ideally) heat shrink, which keeps the termination together robustly and has a smaller form factor than insulated terminals. Plus they are cheap! We use a hammer crimper for 6awg terminals and have had great success with it. We've sectioned terminations made with our hammer crimper to find solid cold-welding of the copper strands to each other and the terminal and load-tested them to ~300lbf pullout strength.

I have an older version of this soldering station.
Wire Strippers My team uses Weller stations. Get something like these, learn/teach how to maintain an oxide-free soldering iron, and life will be great.

We bring everything to competition.
__________________
Theory is a nice place, I'd like to go there one day, I hear everything works there.

Maturity is knowing you were an idiot, common sense is trying to not be an idiot, wisdom is knowing that you will still be an idiot.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 10:55
pfreivald's Avatar
pfreivald pfreivald is offline
Registered User
AKA: Patrick Freivald
FRC #1551 (The Grapes of Wrath)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Naples, NY
Posts: 2,306
pfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

I highly recommend getting a couple of these for stripping wire. You'll never go back to any other way.

https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-1...dp/B00BC39YFQ/

We have an old analogue Hakko soldering iron rather than the new fancy digital one, but it works great after many years. (Being able to go up to 900 F is fantastic for soldering 6 AWG wire.)

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-...dp/B00ANZRT4M/
__________________
Patrick Freivald -- Mentor
Team 1551
"The Grapes of Wrath"
Bausch & Lomb, PTC Corporation, and Naples High School

I write books, too!

Last edited by pfreivald : 07-02-2017 at 11:24.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 11:08
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,039
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

That Klein stripper looks like the way to to. At home, I use the awful one shown in the original post...but I've been using that style for about 45 years, so I've finally got the hang of it. And I use a crimper that is not a multi tool, but it is also not specifically made for insulated terminals...yet it crimps very well.

At school...the electrical folks usually use a multi tool to strip, or a smaller "sized" stripper. And I finally got them to use the same type crimper that I use at home

As usual, the tools are not quite as important as the training. Skilled workers can do a decent job with lousy tools, but an unskilled worker can mess up the job with the best of tools. The best bet is decent tools, and good training. No need to go crazy on the tools, though.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 11:29
jimbo493's Avatar
jimbo493 jimbo493 is offline
Quasi Mentor
AKA: Jimmy
FRC #3357 (The COMETS)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Grand Rapids/Big Rapids
Posts: 83
jimbo493 has a spectacular aura aboutjimbo493 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

In my 4 years in FRC I grew to use a certain set of tools, I'm not saying that these are the best in general, but what I prefer as far as tools.

Wire Strippers:
here

Flush Cutting Wire Cutters:
here

Good pair of dikes:
here

Wago insertion tool for the PDP(These things are amazing, its 1000 times better than a screwdriver):
here

Ferrules and this crimper:
here

Good set of small screwdrivers for electrical only:
here

Crimpers(Ratcheting kind, with die sets for whatever crimps you use):
here

Soldering Iron(Chisel Tip):
here

Hakko Iron Tip Cleaner:
here
__________________


FTC Student 2011-2012 FRC Student 2012-2016
FIRST Alum/Quasi-Mentor 2016-present
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 12:02
D_Price's Avatar
D_Price D_Price is offline
Engineer/Mentor
AKA: Derek
FRC #1708 (Amp'd Robotics (formally Natural Selection))
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: McKeesport, Pa
Posts: 467
D_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant futureD_Price has a brilliant future
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

When I asked them to cut and strip a wire, they grabbed this type of tool (for some reason we have 4-5 pairs of these ):
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-1161...dp/B0007W6JYC/ <---Oh nooo we used to have them. Once we bought new tools I immediately threw them away.


Searching through old threads, I've found quite a few generic "what tools should we have for a new team", but I'd like to focus on nicer to have electrical tools.
Points of consideration:
Where did you buy your tool, or is there a specific brand you trust? We buy a ton of equipment from Automation Direct and Klein Tools. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...Crimping_Tools
Would you recommend a preferred multi-tool (cut, strip, crimp all in one)? Yes the VDV226-011-SEN - Ratcheting Modular Crimper Klein makes. We have 2 and love them. http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/ca...rimperstripper
What about just wire stripping for wiring an entire robot drive train? Works for our typical wiring on our robot and does it well. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/k...er-cuts-nmd-90
Would you use a dedicated wire cutting tool? We would but why when we have a multi-tool
Self-Adjusting Wire Stripper or Wire Stripping Pliers? Wire stripping pliers, it is my preference; but to each their own
Is there a favorite crimping tool? Yep these guys. I absolutely love the ratcheting crimpers. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/r...heting-crimper
Recommended soldering iron? Went with a Hakko this year and works out great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...dtag 29833-20
Which of these do you bring to competition, what do you leave at home? I take everything to competition you never know when you are going to need something and forgot you left it at home.
Also as an extra tool, for a tester I would not go any other brand than Fluke. I use them for work testing wire day in and out and would not go any other. http://en-us.fluke.com/products/elec...al-tester.html

2nd part of the discussion, do you have any type of system in place for protecting your electrical tools from novice abuse? How often do you have to replace a tool? We have a specific electrical tools cabinet separate from the main tool cabinet. I try to stay away from replacing a tool for about 4-5 years if I can get away with it unless we receive a voucher.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Team member 2004-2008
Team mentor 2008-20XX
http://www.team1708.com/
"Education is a powerful tool. Always use it to better someone else's life"
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 17:26
efoote868 efoote868 is offline
foote stepped in
AKA: E. Foote
FRC #0868
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 1,427
efoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

One of the tools my team has that is very useful (in the right hands) is this sort of adjustable wire stripper:
https://www.amazon.com/ProsKit-902-2...dp/B00OSM9B24/

If you set it correctly, it makes stripping lots a particular wire size very quick and easy. Unfortunately, similar to the basic wire strippers I linked above (which also have an adjustment), students on my team don't seem to use the stopper. Which is very frustrating.

Thanks for all the links so far. Interesting to see people's preferences.
__________________

Be Healthy. Never Stop Learning. Say It Like It Is. Own It. Like our values? Flexware Innovation is hiring!. We're looking for Senior Automation, Software, and System Engineers. Check us out!
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 18:05
frcguy's Avatar
frcguy frcguy is offline
#GearsAllDay
AKA: Nicholas Dal Porto
FRC #5940 (B.R.E.A.D.)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Burlingame, CA
Posts: 921
frcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond reputefrcguy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

Highly recommend this soldering station from Weller: https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WESD51...eywords=wesd51. I have one, the team has a few, and it's high performance and affordable.

In terms of measuring equipment, you can't go wrong with Fluke. They've been on top of the electrical instrumentation world since 1953. We love our Fluke 115 we got in FIRST Choice, and they also give away the 117 to FIRST teams in FIRST Choice.
__________________


2017: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional/San Francisco Regional)
2016: Team 5940 (Silicon Valley Regional Rookie All-Star and Quarterfinalist, Curie Quarterfinalist)

Volunteer: 2016 (Chezy Champs Field Reset, Capital City Classic FTA, MadTown ThrowDown FTA)
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2017, 19:31
Donut Donut is offline
The Arizona Mentor
AKA: Andrew
FRC #2662 (RoboKrew)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 1,314
Donut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond reputeDonut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

I am going to third (or fourth) the Katapult style wire strippers, love the auto adjusting capability of them.

I'm a big fan of the the Eclipse Pro'sKit Ergo crimpers, you can get them with Anderson Power Pole crimps but can get many other die sets which allow you to do insulated terminals and PWM crimps with the same crimper. They are similar to the West Mountain Radio crimpers that are referred on older CD threads.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DB...TWL&ref=plSrch

Brady makes my favorite wire labeler, but the cartridge refills are expensive:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IE...ID=91GjQdZmKkL
__________________
FRC Team 498 (Peoria, AZ), Student: 2004 - 2007
FRC Team 498 (Peoria, AZ), Mentor: 2008 - 2011
FRC Team 167 (Iowa City, IA), Mentor: 2012 - 2014
FRC Team 2662 (Tolleson, AZ), Mentor: 2014 - Present
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-02-2017, 08:22
arjunanand23's Avatar
arjunanand23 arjunanand23 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0033
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3
arjunanand23 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

I love these strippers because they are very efficient and very easy to use with many different wire gauges.

https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-45-292-Stripmaster-Wire
Stripper/dp/B000NBA8GM/ref=sr_1_30?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1486560073&sr =1-30&keywords=wire+strippers

Also, if you absolutely have to, you can take a screwdriver and bend it in the form of a normal wago instead of purchasing one. I also find it helpful to have a good pair of wire cutters around as well.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-02-2017, 09:19
npetrie3 npetrie3 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0135 (Penn Robotics)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Mishawaka
Posts: 13
npetrie3 is an unknown quantity at this point
We just purchased a Hakko-FX888D and it is one of the best purchases made on our team. There are better versions of it but it's great for FRC teams. Extremely fast warmup times and lots of settings. Xcelite makes good wire strippers that you can set depth. I use those at work. Definitely get a good kit of ferrules and a heat gun with some heatshrink. Label your wires to make troubleshooting easier. And make clean wiring using sleepving, zip ties, and cable tie anchors from McMaster (or anywhere else).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-02-2017, 09:38
efoote868 efoote868 is offline
foote stepped in
AKA: E. Foote
FRC #0868
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Noblesville, IN
Posts: 1,427
efoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond reputeefoote868 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut View Post
Brady makes my favorite wire labeler, but the cartridge refills are expensive:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IE...ID=91GjQdZmKkL
What size labels are you using?
One thing I really want my team to do is label their wiring to a schematic. I've used Brady at work in the past (lots of lamacoids, some wire labeling). I'm actually really surprised the handheld unit costs less than $100...
__________________

Be Healthy. Never Stop Learning. Say It Like It Is. Own It. Like our values? Flexware Innovation is hiring!. We're looking for Senior Automation, Software, and System Engineers. Check us out!
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-02-2017, 10:07
electroken's Avatar
electroken electroken is offline
Electron Tamer
AKA: Ken Pontbriant
FRC #0230 (Gaelhawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Shelton, CT
Posts: 183
electroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the rough
Re: Recommended Electrical (Hand) Tools, Best Practices

This battery cable connector crimper works very well for us:

https://www.amazon.com/Crimper-Crimp...+cable+crimper

...and it's impossible to beat for $24.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:53.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi