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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:04
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What wheel to use for the flywheel

Out team is trying to build a single flywheel shooter. Currently we are using a 4" colson performa wheel that is 2 inch wide. Despite Pid control and trying various compression, our shots are all over the place. Any suggestion on the wheel choice and the amount of compression that may improve our consistency will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:08
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Have you tried putting a second, identical wheel on the same axle? Or, how about splitting the 2" wheel into two 1" wheels? The resulting "groove" should allow a straighter track through the shooter. It's not an uncommon setup for FRC shooters.
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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:14
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Thanks for the suggestion. We will try that tomorrow.
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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:25
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Colson's are too hard this year. Try a soft rubber wheel for your flywheel.
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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:51
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

We are starting to think along those line too. I think my team build a reasonably good cage and hood for the flywheel and we have done everything we knew to tweak it. We will look at a softer wheel.
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Unread 08-02-2017, 23:55
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint View Post
Colson's are too hard this year. Try a soft rubber wheel for your flywheel.
I really want to see slow motion footage of a ball leaving a shooter that has a soft rubber wheel. I'd guess that at the speed the shooter wheel spins at, there is enough centripetal force pulling outward on the wheel that it acts like a hard rubber wheel rather than a soft one.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 00:03
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Originally Posted by lamk View Post
We are starting to think along those line too. I think my team build a reasonably good cage and hood for the flywheel and we have done everything we knew to tweak it. We will look at a softer wheel.
Try rolling the balls through the shooter by hand, putting them in the bottom and spinning the wheel with the robot powered off. This is a pretty subjective and variable thing, but you want the ball to resist going through somewhat without really getting stuck or sliding by freely. (There also should not be one spot early in the ball's path that is much tighter than elsewhere.) This is a rough indication of whether you have a dearth or excess of compression. If you have too little compression, some balls will probably not catch well and receive less energy than others. Conversely, if you have too much compression, the aggressive deformation the balls are undergoing can make their trajectories hard to predict upon exit.

The equalizing factor, as Clint said, may well be trying a softer wheel that allows more compression to come from the forgiving wheel rather than the balls.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 00:22
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes View Post
I really want to see slow motion footage of a ball leaving a shooter that has a soft rubber wheel. I'd guess (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fps6S03aWyE) that at the speed the shooter wheel spins at, there is enough centripetal force pulling outward on the wheel that it acts like a hard rubber wheel rather than a soft one.
The flywheel has to grab the fuel consistently and bring it into the shooting mechanism, the colsons slip a lot before actually taking the fuel into the shooting mechanism, resulting in inconsistent velocity and distance.

YMMV, just some results from our tests.
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Last edited by Fusion_Clint : 09-02-2017 at 00:26.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 00:39
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint View Post
The flywheel has to grab the fuel consistently and bring it into the shooting mechanism, the colsons slip a lot before actually taking the fuel into the shooting mechanism, resulting in inconsistent velocity and distance.

YMMV, just some results from our tests.
Which wheel will you recommend?
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Unread 09-02-2017, 01:28
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Originally Posted by lamk View Post
Which wheel will you recommend?
The new andymark wheels.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 01:46
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

Space and weight allowing, more massive flywheels can be more easily regulated using PID. Through conservation of momentum, a large mass flywheel will transfer less of its momentum to the fuel than a less massive flywheel for each shot. It will take longer to reach optimal shooting angular velocity, but will maintain that angular velocity much more easily. If it's possible you may look into that in addition to different wheel surfaces
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Unread 09-02-2017, 01:51
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Originally Posted by Munchskull View Post
The new andymark wheels.
Just for clarity, I assume Anthony is referring to these, as well as the other compliant wheels AndyMark has released this past season.

To the OP, a picture of your current setup would help us all dig into the minutia of your design and offer advice, if you so choose.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 02:04
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/s...4&postcount=17

Not much has changed, really.
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Unread 09-02-2017, 10:22
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Unread 09-02-2017, 11:10
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Re: What wheel to use for the flywheel

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Originally Posted by s_forbes View Post
I really want to see slow motion footage of a ball leaving a shooter that has a soft rubber wheel. I'd guess that at the speed the shooter wheel spins at, there is enough centripetal force pulling outward on the wheel that it acts like a hard rubber wheel rather than a soft one.
Our initial prototype used the 4" traction wheels that have come in the KoP in the past (very hard). It worked well enough, but even with only a moderate amount of compression you could hear/see the CIM motor powering it practically stall when a ball went through. Switch that out to the AndyMark compliant wheels, and now with the same setup (same compression, same motor, same gear ratio, literally the only difference is changing one 4" wheel for another) we can feed in a whole row of balls without any noticeable slowdown with the motor. The compliant wheels really do make a difference.
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